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    Smoother Dynamic Crossfades

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    • d.healeyD
      d.healey @HISEnberg
      last edited by

      @HISEnberg Nope

      Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
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      • Robert PuzaR
        Robert Puza @d.healey
        last edited by

        @d-healey

        Please explain the question.
        Do you mean to equalize the sound differences between samples velocity1 and velocity2? (For example)

        that the velocity crossfading we have is not enough?

        I like the topic of dynamics, I just want to understand this question correctly.

        d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • d.healeyD
          d.healey @Robert Puza
          last edited by

          @Robert-Puza This thread was initially started to discuss audio morphing. There are a lot of links earlier in this thread that give an explanation of the concept. This one is probably the most clear - https://spectmorph.org/

          Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
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          Robert PuzaR clevername27C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • Robert PuzaR
            Robert Puza @d.healey
            last edited by

            @d-healey ok. I'll look..

            but if you compare morphing to a picture, ...it sounds to me like you're talking about fractal geometry. (The equational answer to the truth that a tree is not a triangle and a cloud is not a sphere.)

            If Hise fills in the missing samples - is that also morphing?

            If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

            d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • d.healeyD
              d.healey @Robert Puza
              last edited by

              @Robert-Puza said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

              If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

              Probably :)

              Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
              My Patreon - HISE tutorials
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              • Robert PuzaR
                Robert Puza @d.healey
                last edited by

                @d-healey https://youtu.be/5JwnSDIHN2w?si=yG7zx9fntYSURs99

                With an image it's like this (with a fractal equation) we design 2 images and specify how many images should be created between them. But it's a simulation of natural phenomena. Is it Morphing?
                Are you thinking of something similar with sound?

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                • Robert PuzaR
                  Robert Puza @d.healey
                  last edited by

                  This post is deleted!
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                  • VirtualVirginV
                    VirtualVirgin
                    last edited by VirtualVirgin

                    Sample Modeling instruments do essentially what you are asking about here, so it's definitely do-able.

                    "All Samplemodeling instruments exploit Dr. Giorgio Tommasini’s patented 'Harmonic Alignment' technique, which ensures for the first time seamless transitions across virtually infinite dynamics, from pianissimo to fortissimo."

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                    ABOUT US a look inside the company More than 20 years of research and development A story of innovation and dedication aimed at helping musicians and composers to freely express their musical ideas. How it all started Samplers and synthesizers have been for decades the cornerstones of virtual music. The virtues and drawbacks of each […]

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                    Samplemodeling (www.samplemodeling.com)

                    I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

                    You should probably ask Aaron Venture some questions, as his instruments are doing something similar:

                    "Phase-aligned samples result in no perceived cross-fades between the layers; the response is smooth, musical, and sounds like the real thing."

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                    • d.healeyD
                      d.healey @VirtualVirgin
                      last edited by d.healey

                      @VirtualVirgin said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                      I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

                      I have asked them directly about this and they have not responded. As far as I can tell there is no patent. But if there was a patent, which they say was filed in 2004, then it expired this year (assuming it's filed in the US and they didn't get any extension).

                      Harmonic alignment/phase alignment is not the same as morphing. There are a number of methods for phase alignment, I have a tool that will phase align sustain samples, you can also achieve pretty much perfect phase alignment by flattening the pitches of samples, but it does remove some of the humanity from them so you need to add it back with modulators.

                      Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
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                      HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • Robert PuzaR
                        Robert Puza @Christoph Hart
                        last edited by Robert Puza

                        @Christoph-Hart That's amazing. Hise still surprises me.

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                        • HISEnbergH
                          HISEnberg @d.healey
                          last edited by

                          Thanks for sharing the video @d-healey !

                          I think phase alignment is more of an immediate concern for me, personally. Spectral morphing (which would be a bit different then harmonic alignement) sounds like a cool topic, but I imagine i would just go down the wavetable route to accomplish a similar result.

                          You said you have a "tool" that does this, is this a HISE script which will track the 0-crossings of the sample and delay the transitions of one note to the next (similar to what is described in the Ivy video)?

                          I am trying to wrap my head around how this would be accomplished. Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

                          I am picturing having to write a MIDI processor that would:

                          • Track the sample’s playback position.
                          • Detect zero-crossings in real-time.
                          • Trigger a phase-aligned transition when a new MIDI note is received.

                          Am I on the right track or is this over-thought and you have a better method?

                          d.healeyD clevername27C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • d.healeyD
                            d.healey @HISEnberg
                            last edited by d.healey

                            @HISEnberg It's a standalone application I commissioned a few years ago. It takes in multiple samples of different dynamics and outputs the same samples phase aligned to each other. It's not perfect, sometimes the attacks sound a bit weird, but most of the time it does a good job.

                            @HISEnberg said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                            Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

                            I use the built in group crossfade feature.

                            If you want to build a similar thing in HISE I think Loris would be your friend.

                            Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                            My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                            YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                            HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • HISEnbergH
                              HISEnberg @d.healey
                              last edited by

                              @d-healey yes thank you.

                              I was just re reading the post on @iamlamprey NEATBRAIN system to see if I could gain some insights on this topic. I haven't really dug into Loris but this seems like a proper opportunity to do so.

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                              • ?
                                A Former User @HISEnberg
                                last edited by

                                @HISEnberg NEATBrain doesn't use any crossfading shenanigans, it just loops a single cycle at its fundamental frequency to simulate a wavetable synth

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                                • clevername27C
                                  clevername27 @d.healey
                                  last edited by

                                  @d-healey Isn't morphing just interpolating between the amplitudes of FFT bins?

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                                  • d.healeyD
                                    d.healey @clevername27
                                    last edited by

                                    @clevername27 I don't know

                                    Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                                    My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                                    YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

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                                    • Robert PuzaR
                                      Robert Puza @Christoph Hart
                                      last edited by

                                      @Christoph-Hart When I HEARD your snippet - I knew I wanted that filter for sustain. Harm. Filter is suuuuper 👍

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                                      • modularsamplesM
                                        modularsamples
                                        last edited by modularsamples

                                        Excuse my naivety on the subject, but In scriptnode alone we have the ability record, analyse and import wavs, generate sine waves and have extremely large sliderpacks (if I recall, this was bumped up to something like 4000+ in a recent update). All the important stuff needed for spectral resynthesis, no?

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                                        • HISEnbergH
                                          HISEnberg @clevername27
                                          last edited by

                                          @clevername27 I have generally understood it this way, though I think there are a lot of methodologies. From what I can tell there isn't a standard for spectral morphing.

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                                          • HISEnbergH
                                            HISEnberg @modularsamples
                                            last edited by

                                            @modularsamples Hypothetically, yes, I think this would be extremely complex and CPU intensive to implement though.

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