HISE Logo Forum
    • Categories
    • Register
    • Login

    Smoother Dynamic Crossfades

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Questions
    38 Posts 10 Posters 3.7k Views
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • d.healeyD
      d.healey
      last edited by

      I don't mean an EQ morph like the AET I mean a sonic audio morph:

      http://www.zynaptiq.com/morph/
      http://www.hakenaudio.com/RealTimeMorph/
      http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Kelly/soundmorphing.html
      https://www.dynamictonality.com/spectools.htm
      http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/23311835.2015.1102116

      Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
      My Patreon - HISE tutorials
      YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Christoph HartC
        Christoph Hart
        last edited by

        I suppose they all work using a FFT spectrum matching algorithm (which is basically the same thing as AET, but maybe with a better implementation)?

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • d.healeyD
          d.healey
          last edited by d.healey

          I'm not sure if that's how it's done with image or video morphs, they use interpolation. I suppose the equivalent in audio would be to take two samples and interpolate the frequency and amplitude over time creating a nice smooth morph rather than just a frequency or amplitude crossfade. I came across a really good example a while ago but typically I can't find it now!

          Edit: Even more typically I found the link after making this post :) - http://cmc.music.columbia.edu/musicandcomputers/chapter5/05_06.php

          Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
          My Patreon - HISE tutorials
          YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • d.healeyD
            d.healey
            last edited by

            Christoph, I just came across this. Could something like this be implemented in HISE to morph between dynamics - http://spectmorph.org/ ?

            Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
            My Patreon - HISE tutorials
            YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Christoph HartC
              Christoph Hart
              last edited by

              Sounds interesting, I'll take a look. I don't know it it is suitable for realtime processing, but maybe you can use this to convert your samples to multi-velocity wavetables and import them into the wavetable synth in HISE.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • LindonL
                Lindon
                last edited by

                seems t be implemented in a VST plugin so it might work real-time.

                HISE Development for hire.
                www.channelrobot.com

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • d.healeyD
                  d.healey
                  last edited by

                  Yes it looks like it's real time. If it isn't then the analysis must be done before hand so that it can be morphed in real time (which would also work for dynamics or other morphing effects). Sample libraries with morphing like this would be a game changer.

                  Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                  My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                  YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • d.healeyD
                    d.healey
                    last edited by

                    Another possibility - http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Kelly/soundmorphing.html

                    Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                    My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                    YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                    HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • HISEnbergH
                      HISEnberg @d.healey
                      last edited by HISEnberg

                      @d-healey @Christoph-Hart did you guys ever make progress on this topic? I realize HISE is quite robust in terms of crossfading, but it would be pretty amazing to see some automatic phase-alignment going on.

                      I just started exploring this topic with regards to samplers, but it is quite interesting and it seems to me like it has a lot to offer in terms of workflow.

                      d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • d.healeyD
                        d.healey @HISEnberg
                        last edited by

                        @HISEnberg Nope

                        Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                        My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                        YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Robert PuzaR
                          Robert Puza @d.healey
                          last edited by

                          @d-healey

                          Please explain the question.
                          Do you mean to equalize the sound differences between samples velocity1 and velocity2? (For example)

                          that the velocity crossfading we have is not enough?

                          I like the topic of dynamics, I just want to understand this question correctly.

                          d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • d.healeyD
                            d.healey @Robert Puza
                            last edited by

                            @Robert-Puza This thread was initially started to discuss audio morphing. There are a lot of links earlier in this thread that give an explanation of the concept. This one is probably the most clear - https://spectmorph.org/

                            Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                            My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                            YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                            Robert PuzaR clevername27C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • Robert PuzaR
                              Robert Puza @d.healey
                              last edited by

                              @d-healey ok. I'll look..

                              but if you compare morphing to a picture, ...it sounds to me like you're talking about fractal geometry. (The equational answer to the truth that a tree is not a triangle and a cloud is not a sphere.)

                              If Hise fills in the missing samples - is that also morphing?

                              If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

                              d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • d.healeyD
                                d.healey @Robert Puza
                                last edited by

                                @Robert-Puza said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                                If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

                                Probably :)

                                Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                                My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                                YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                                Robert PuzaR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • Robert PuzaR
                                  Robert Puza @d.healey
                                  last edited by

                                  @d-healey https://youtu.be/5JwnSDIHN2w?si=yG7zx9fntYSURs99

                                  With an image it's like this (with a fractal equation) we design 2 images and specify how many images should be created between them. But it's a simulation of natural phenomena. Is it Morphing?
                                  Are you thinking of something similar with sound?

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Robert PuzaR
                                    Robert Puza @d.healey
                                    last edited by

                                    This post is deleted!
                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • VirtualVirginV
                                      VirtualVirgin
                                      last edited by VirtualVirgin

                                      Sample Modeling instruments do essentially what you are asking about here, so it's definitely do-able.

                                      "All Samplemodeling instruments exploit Dr. Giorgio Tommasini’s patented 'Harmonic Alignment' technique, which ensures for the first time seamless transitions across virtually infinite dynamics, from pianissimo to fortissimo."

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      About Us - Samplemodeling

                                      ABOUT US a look inside the company More than 20 years of research and development A story of innovation and dedication aimed at helping musicians and composers to freely express their musical ideas. How it all started Samplers and synthesizers have been for decades the cornerstones of virtual music. The virtues and drawbacks of each […]

                                      favicon

                                      Samplemodeling (www.samplemodeling.com)

                                      I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

                                      You should probably ask Aaron Venture some questions, as his instruments are doing something similar:

                                      "Phase-aligned samples result in no perceived cross-fades between the layers; the response is smooth, musical, and sounds like the real thing."

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      Infinite Brass — Aaron Venture

                                      Your personal live brass ensemble - playable virtual instruments for NI Kontakt. Perform all articulations with infinite variety. Build your own sections from 26 solo brass instruments and position them as you please in 3 different real spaces, then dial in your preferred mix of 3 different microphone sets.

                                      favicon

                                      Aaron Venture (www.aaronventure.com)

                                      You can listen to orchestral my orchestral mockups here:
                                      https://www.virtualvirgin.net/

                                      d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • d.healeyD
                                        d.healey @VirtualVirgin
                                        last edited by d.healey

                                        @VirtualVirgin said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                                        I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

                                        I have asked them directly about this and they have not responded. As far as I can tell there is no patent. But if there was a patent, which they say was filed in 2004, then it expired this year (assuming it's filed in the US and they didn't get any extension).

                                        Harmonic alignment/phase alignment is not the same as morphing. There are a number of methods for phase alignment, I have a tool that will phase align sustain samples, you can also achieve pretty much perfect phase alignment by flattening the pitches of samples, but it does remove some of the humanity from them so you need to add it back with modulators.

                                        Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                                        My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                                        YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                                        HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • Robert PuzaR
                                          Robert Puza @Christoph Hart
                                          last edited by Robert Puza

                                          @Christoph-Hart That's amazing. Hise still surprises me.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • HISEnbergH
                                            HISEnberg @d.healey
                                            last edited by

                                            Thanks for sharing the video @d-healey !

                                            I think phase alignment is more of an immediate concern for me, personally. Spectral morphing (which would be a bit different then harmonic alignement) sounds like a cool topic, but I imagine i would just go down the wavetable route to accomplish a similar result.

                                            You said you have a "tool" that does this, is this a HISE script which will track the 0-crossings of the sample and delay the transitions of one note to the next (similar to what is described in the Ivy video)?

                                            I am trying to wrap my head around how this would be accomplished. Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

                                            I am picturing having to write a MIDI processor that would:

                                            • Track the sample’s playback position.
                                            • Detect zero-crossings in real-time.
                                            • Trigger a phase-aligned transition when a new MIDI note is received.

                                            Am I on the right track or is this over-thought and you have a better method?

                                            d.healeyD clevername27C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • First post
                                              Last post

                                            21

                                            Online

                                            1.7k

                                            Users

                                            11.8k

                                            Topics

                                            102.7k

                                            Posts