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    Smoother Dynamic Crossfades

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    • d.healeyD
      d.healey @Robert Puza
      last edited by

      @Robert-Puza said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

      If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

      Probably :)

      Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
      My Patreon - HISE tutorials
      YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

      Robert PuzaR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • Robert PuzaR
        Robert Puza @d.healey
        last edited by

        @d-healey https://youtu.be/5JwnSDIHN2w?si=yG7zx9fntYSURs99

        With an image it's like this (with a fractal equation) we design 2 images and specify how many images should be created between them. But it's a simulation of natural phenomena. Is it Morphing?
        Are you thinking of something similar with sound?

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        • Robert PuzaR
          Robert Puza @d.healey
          last edited by

          This post is deleted!
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          • VirtualVirginV
            VirtualVirgin
            last edited by VirtualVirgin

            Sample Modeling instruments do essentially what you are asking about here, so it's definitely do-able.

            "All Samplemodeling instruments exploit Dr. Giorgio Tommasini’s patented 'Harmonic Alignment' technique, which ensures for the first time seamless transitions across virtually infinite dynamics, from pianissimo to fortissimo."

            Link Preview Image
            About Us - Samplemodeling

            ABOUT US a look inside the company More than 20 years of research and development A story of innovation and dedication aimed at helping musicians and composers to freely express their musical ideas. How it all started Samplers and synthesizers have been for decades the cornerstones of virtual music. The virtues and drawbacks of each […]

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            Samplemodeling (www.samplemodeling.com)

            I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

            You should probably ask Aaron Venture some questions, as his instruments are doing something similar:

            "Phase-aligned samples result in no perceived cross-fades between the layers; the response is smooth, musical, and sounds like the real thing."

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            Infinite Brass — Aaron Venture

            Your personal live brass ensemble - playable virtual instruments for NI Kontakt. Perform all articulations with infinite variety. Build your own sections from 26 solo brass instruments and position them as you please in 3 different real spaces, then dial in your preferred mix of 3 different microphone sets.

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            Aaron Venture (www.aaronventure.com)

            You can listen to orchestral my orchestral mockups here:
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            d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • d.healeyD
              d.healey @VirtualVirgin
              last edited by d.healey

              @VirtualVirgin said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

              I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

              I have asked them directly about this and they have not responded. As far as I can tell there is no patent. But if there was a patent, which they say was filed in 2004, then it expired this year (assuming it's filed in the US and they didn't get any extension).

              Harmonic alignment/phase alignment is not the same as morphing. There are a number of methods for phase alignment, I have a tool that will phase align sustain samples, you can also achieve pretty much perfect phase alignment by flattening the pitches of samples, but it does remove some of the humanity from them so you need to add it back with modulators.

              Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
              My Patreon - HISE tutorials
              YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

              HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • Robert PuzaR
                Robert Puza @Christoph Hart
                last edited by Robert Puza

                @Christoph-Hart That's amazing. Hise still surprises me.

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                • HISEnbergH
                  HISEnberg @d.healey
                  last edited by

                  Thanks for sharing the video @d-healey !

                  I think phase alignment is more of an immediate concern for me, personally. Spectral morphing (which would be a bit different then harmonic alignement) sounds like a cool topic, but I imagine i would just go down the wavetable route to accomplish a similar result.

                  You said you have a "tool" that does this, is this a HISE script which will track the 0-crossings of the sample and delay the transitions of one note to the next (similar to what is described in the Ivy video)?

                  I am trying to wrap my head around how this would be accomplished. Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

                  I am picturing having to write a MIDI processor that would:

                  • Track the sample’s playback position.
                  • Detect zero-crossings in real-time.
                  • Trigger a phase-aligned transition when a new MIDI note is received.

                  Am I on the right track or is this over-thought and you have a better method?

                  d.healeyD clevername27C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • d.healeyD
                    d.healey @HISEnberg
                    last edited by d.healey

                    @HISEnberg It's a standalone application I commissioned a few years ago. It takes in multiple samples of different dynamics and outputs the same samples phase aligned to each other. It's not perfect, sometimes the attacks sound a bit weird, but most of the time it does a good job.

                    @HISEnberg said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                    Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

                    I use the built in group crossfade feature.

                    If you want to build a similar thing in HISE I think Loris would be your friend.

                    Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                    My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                    YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                    HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • HISEnbergH
                      HISEnberg @d.healey
                      last edited by

                      @d-healey yes thank you.

                      I was just re reading the post on @iamlamprey NEATBRAIN system to see if I could gain some insights on this topic. I haven't really dug into Loris but this seems like a proper opportunity to do so.

                      ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • ?
                        A Former User @HISEnberg
                        last edited by

                        @HISEnberg NEATBrain doesn't use any crossfading shenanigans, it just loops a single cycle at its fundamental frequency to simulate a wavetable synth

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                        • clevername27C
                          clevername27 @d.healey
                          last edited by

                          @d-healey Isn't morphing just interpolating between the amplitudes of FFT bins?

                          d.healeyD HISEnbergH 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • d.healeyD
                            d.healey @clevername27
                            last edited by

                            @clevername27 I don't know

                            Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                            My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                            YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

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                            • Robert PuzaR
                              Robert Puza @Christoph Hart
                              last edited by

                              @Christoph-Hart When I HEARD your snippet - I knew I wanted that filter for sustain. Harm. Filter is suuuuper 👍

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                              • modularsamplesM
                                modularsamples
                                last edited by modularsamples

                                Excuse my naivety on the subject, but In scriptnode alone we have the ability record, analyse and import wavs, generate sine waves and have extremely large sliderpacks (if I recall, this was bumped up to something like 4000+ in a recent update). All the important stuff needed for spectral resynthesis, no?

                                HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • HISEnbergH
                                  HISEnberg @clevername27
                                  last edited by

                                  @clevername27 I have generally understood it this way, though I think there are a lot of methodologies. From what I can tell there isn't a standard for spectral morphing.

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                                  • HISEnbergH
                                    HISEnberg @modularsamples
                                    last edited by

                                    @modularsamples Hypothetically, yes, I think this would be extremely complex and CPU intensive to implement though.

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                                    • clevername27C
                                      clevername27 @HISEnberg
                                      last edited by clevername27

                                      @HISEnberg @modularsamples @Christoph-Hart @Robert-Puza @d-healey I don't know if this is helpful – I'm using additive synthesis for the sustain portion of my sounds, without phase issues. Here's a screen-capture movie with sound.

                                      eb60b675-6e9c-46ed-9e98-3e46dbc3bfb1-image.png
                                      4dd5d891-7ba5-48a9-87c1-ba4f2e5bdd31-image.png

                                      modularsamplesM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • modularsamplesM
                                        modularsamples @clevername27
                                        last edited by

                                        @clevername27 Nice, that ring is really pleasing. This is kind of attention to detail that I aspire to.

                                        Just gonna throw this into the mix:

                                        Design and Run Real-time Spectral Processing on the Web with Faust
                                        https://inria.hal.science/hal-04507625/document

                                        And to rewind a bit, what about an equal power crossfade? Shouldn't that be a bit more forgiving when using material that' s not been phase aligned? I used to do this all the time in Logics EXS24 and the equal power fade was almost always the way to go.

                                        d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • d.healeyD
                                          d.healey @modularsamples
                                          last edited by

                                          @modularsamples said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                                          what about an equal power crossfade?

                                          EP crossfade it the standard approach that's been used for many years for dynamic layers. It doesn't solve the chorusing issue though which is why phase-alignment (or audio morphing) is necessary. I should say that this is mostly an issue for solo instruments, with ensembles it's less of a problem.

                                          Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                                          My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                                          YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                                          modularsamplesM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • modularsamplesM
                                            modularsamples @d.healey
                                            last edited by

                                            @d-healey I notice it quite a bit with synthesised samples too, hence my interest, even more annoying is the tendency for crossfaded sounds to have volume dip between layers. Smoothing helps a bit (smoothed parameter in low pass mode in particular) but it's always there to some extent.

                                            It's a shame physical modelling (of real instruments) never really fulfilled it's promise, but then many of us might not be here, or maybe we'd be talking about HIPME.

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