HISE Logo Forum
    • Categories
    • Register
    • Login

    Smoother Dynamic Crossfades

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Questions
    38 Posts 10 Posters 3.7k Views
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • LindonL
      Lindon
      last edited by

      seems t be implemented in a VST plugin so it might work real-time.

      HISE Development for hire.
      www.channelrobot.com

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • d.healeyD
        d.healey
        last edited by

        Yes it looks like it's real time. If it isn't then the analysis must be done before hand so that it can be morphed in real time (which would also work for dynamics or other morphing effects). Sample libraries with morphing like this would be a game changer.

        Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
        My Patreon - HISE tutorials
        YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • d.healeyD
          d.healey
          last edited by

          Another possibility - http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Kelly/soundmorphing.html

          Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
          My Patreon - HISE tutorials
          YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

          HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • HISEnbergH
            HISEnberg @d.healey
            last edited by HISEnberg

            @d-healey @Christoph-Hart did you guys ever make progress on this topic? I realize HISE is quite robust in terms of crossfading, but it would be pretty amazing to see some automatic phase-alignment going on.

            I just started exploring this topic with regards to samplers, but it is quite interesting and it seems to me like it has a lot to offer in terms of workflow.

            d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • d.healeyD
              d.healey @HISEnberg
              last edited by

              @HISEnberg Nope

              Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
              My Patreon - HISE tutorials
              YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Robert PuzaR
                Robert Puza @d.healey
                last edited by

                @d-healey

                Please explain the question.
                Do you mean to equalize the sound differences between samples velocity1 and velocity2? (For example)

                that the velocity crossfading we have is not enough?

                I like the topic of dynamics, I just want to understand this question correctly.

                d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • d.healeyD
                  d.healey @Robert Puza
                  last edited by

                  @Robert-Puza This thread was initially started to discuss audio morphing. There are a lot of links earlier in this thread that give an explanation of the concept. This one is probably the most clear - https://spectmorph.org/

                  Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                  My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                  YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                  Robert PuzaR clevername27C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • Robert PuzaR
                    Robert Puza @d.healey
                    last edited by

                    @d-healey ok. I'll look..

                    but if you compare morphing to a picture, ...it sounds to me like you're talking about fractal geometry. (The equational answer to the truth that a tree is not a triangle and a cloud is not a sphere.)

                    If Hise fills in the missing samples - is that also morphing?

                    If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

                    d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • d.healeyD
                      d.healey @Robert Puza
                      last edited by

                      @Robert-Puza said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                      If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

                      Probably :)

                      Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                      My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                      YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                      Robert PuzaR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • Robert PuzaR
                        Robert Puza @d.healey
                        last edited by

                        @d-healey https://youtu.be/5JwnSDIHN2w?si=yG7zx9fntYSURs99

                        With an image it's like this (with a fractal equation) we design 2 images and specify how many images should be created between them. But it's a simulation of natural phenomena. Is it Morphing?
                        Are you thinking of something similar with sound?

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Robert PuzaR
                          Robert Puza @d.healey
                          last edited by

                          This post is deleted!
                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • VirtualVirginV
                            VirtualVirgin
                            last edited by VirtualVirgin

                            Sample Modeling instruments do essentially what you are asking about here, so it's definitely do-able.

                            "All Samplemodeling instruments exploit Dr. Giorgio Tommasini’s patented 'Harmonic Alignment' technique, which ensures for the first time seamless transitions across virtually infinite dynamics, from pianissimo to fortissimo."

                            Link Preview Image
                            About Us - Samplemodeling

                            ABOUT US a look inside the company More than 20 years of research and development A story of innovation and dedication aimed at helping musicians and composers to freely express their musical ideas. How it all started Samplers and synthesizers have been for decades the cornerstones of virtual music. The virtues and drawbacks of each […]

                            favicon

                            Samplemodeling (www.samplemodeling.com)

                            I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

                            You should probably ask Aaron Venture some questions, as his instruments are doing something similar:

                            "Phase-aligned samples result in no perceived cross-fades between the layers; the response is smooth, musical, and sounds like the real thing."

                            Link Preview Image
                            Infinite Brass — Aaron Venture

                            Your personal live brass ensemble - playable virtual instruments for NI Kontakt. Perform all articulations with infinite variety. Build your own sections from 26 solo brass instruments and position them as you please in 3 different real spaces, then dial in your preferred mix of 3 different microphone sets.

                            favicon

                            Aaron Venture (www.aaronventure.com)

                            You can listen to orchestral my orchestral mockups here:
                            https://www.virtualvirgin.net/

                            d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • d.healeyD
                              d.healey @VirtualVirgin
                              last edited by d.healey

                              @VirtualVirgin said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                              I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

                              I have asked them directly about this and they have not responded. As far as I can tell there is no patent. But if there was a patent, which they say was filed in 2004, then it expired this year (assuming it's filed in the US and they didn't get any extension).

                              Harmonic alignment/phase alignment is not the same as morphing. There are a number of methods for phase alignment, I have a tool that will phase align sustain samples, you can also achieve pretty much perfect phase alignment by flattening the pitches of samples, but it does remove some of the humanity from them so you need to add it back with modulators.

                              Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                              My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                              YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                              HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • Robert PuzaR
                                Robert Puza @Christoph Hart
                                last edited by Robert Puza

                                @Christoph-Hart That's amazing. Hise still surprises me.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • HISEnbergH
                                  HISEnberg @d.healey
                                  last edited by

                                  Thanks for sharing the video @d-healey !

                                  I think phase alignment is more of an immediate concern for me, personally. Spectral morphing (which would be a bit different then harmonic alignement) sounds like a cool topic, but I imagine i would just go down the wavetable route to accomplish a similar result.

                                  You said you have a "tool" that does this, is this a HISE script which will track the 0-crossings of the sample and delay the transitions of one note to the next (similar to what is described in the Ivy video)?

                                  I am trying to wrap my head around how this would be accomplished. Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

                                  I am picturing having to write a MIDI processor that would:

                                  • Track the sample’s playback position.
                                  • Detect zero-crossings in real-time.
                                  • Trigger a phase-aligned transition when a new MIDI note is received.

                                  Am I on the right track or is this over-thought and you have a better method?

                                  d.healeyD clevername27C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • d.healeyD
                                    d.healey @HISEnberg
                                    last edited by d.healey

                                    @HISEnberg It's a standalone application I commissioned a few years ago. It takes in multiple samples of different dynamics and outputs the same samples phase aligned to each other. It's not perfect, sometimes the attacks sound a bit weird, but most of the time it does a good job.

                                    @HISEnberg said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

                                    Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

                                    I use the built in group crossfade feature.

                                    If you want to build a similar thing in HISE I think Loris would be your friend.

                                    Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                                    My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                                    YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                                    HISEnbergH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • HISEnbergH
                                      HISEnberg @d.healey
                                      last edited by

                                      @d-healey yes thank you.

                                      I was just re reading the post on @iamlamprey NEATBRAIN system to see if I could gain some insights on this topic. I haven't really dug into Loris but this seems like a proper opportunity to do so.

                                      ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • ?
                                        A Former User @HISEnberg
                                        last edited by

                                        @HISEnberg NEATBrain doesn't use any crossfading shenanigans, it just loops a single cycle at its fundamental frequency to simulate a wavetable synth

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • clevername27C
                                          clevername27 @d.healey
                                          last edited by

                                          @d-healey Isn't morphing just interpolating between the amplitudes of FFT bins?

                                          d.healeyD HISEnbergH 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • d.healeyD
                                            d.healey @clevername27
                                            last edited by

                                            @clevername27 I don't know

                                            Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                                            My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                                            YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                            • First post
                                              Last post

                                            15

                                            Online

                                            1.7k

                                            Users

                                            11.8k

                                            Topics

                                            102.7k

                                            Posts