Smoother Dynamic Crossfades

[Christoph Hart]

Sounds interesting, I'll take a look. I don't know it it is suitable for realtime processing, but maybe you can use this to convert your samples to multi-velocity wavetables and import them into the wavetable synth in HISE.

[Lindon]

seems t be implemented in a VST plugin so it might work real-time.

[d.healey]

Yes it looks like it's real time. If it isn't then the analysis must be done before hand so that it can be morphed in real time (which would also work for dynamics or other morphing effects). Sample libraries with morphing like this would be a game changer.

[d.healey]

Another possibility - http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Kelly/soundmorphing.html

[HISEnberg]

@d-healey @Christoph-Hart did you guys ever make progress on this topic? I realize HISE is quite robust in terms of crossfading, but it would be pretty amazing to see some automatic phase-alignment going on.

I just started exploring this topic with regards to samplers, but it is quite interesting and it seems to me like it has a lot to offer in terms of workflow.

[d.healey]

@HISEnberg Nope

[Robert Puza]

@d-healey

Please explain the question.
Do you mean to equalize the sound differences between samples velocity1 and velocity2? (For example)

that the velocity crossfading we have is not enough?

I like the topic of dynamics, I just want to understand this question correctly.

[d.healey]

@Robert-Puza This thread was initially started to discuss audio morphing. There are a lot of links earlier in this thread that give an explanation of the concept. This one is probably the most clear - https://spectmorph.org/

[Robert Puza]

@d-healey ok. I'll look..

but if you compare morphing to a picture, ...it sounds to me like you're talking about fractal geometry. (The equational answer to the truth that a tree is not a triangle and a cloud is not a sphere.)

If Hise fills in the missing samples - is that also morphing?

If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

[d.healey]

@Robert-Puza said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

Probably :)

[Robert Puza]

@d-healey https://youtu.be/5JwnSDIHN2w?si=yG7zx9fntYSURs99

With an image it's like this (with a fractal equation) we design 2 images and specify how many images should be created between them. But it's a simulation of natural phenomena. Is it Morphing?
Are you thinking of something similar with sound?

[Robert Puza]

This post is deleted!

[VirtualVirgin]

Sample Modeling instruments do essentially what you are asking about here, so it's definitely do-able.

"All Samplemodeling instruments exploit Dr. Giorgio Tommasini’s patented 'Harmonic Alignment' technique, which ensures for the first time seamless transitions across virtually infinite dynamics, from pianissimo to fortissimo."

https://www.samplemodeling.com/about-us/

I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

You should probably ask Aaron Venture some questions, as his instruments are doing something similar:

"Phase-aligned samples result in no perceived cross-fades between the layers; the response is smooth, musical, and sounds like the real thing."

https://www.aaronventure.com/infinite-brass

[d.healey]

@VirtualVirgin said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

I have asked them directly about this and they have not responded. As far as I can tell there is no patent. But if there was a patent, which they say was filed in 2004, then it expired this year (assuming it's filed in the US and they didn't get any extension).

Harmonic alignment/phase alignment is not the same as morphing. There are a number of methods for phase alignment, I have a tool that will phase align sustain samples, you can also achieve pretty much perfect phase alignment by flattening the pitches of samples, but it does remove some of the humanity from them so you need to add it back with modulators.

https://youtu.be/I9YvUf_Hzh0?si=YEDcjwmtjIQTkmUb

[Robert Puza]

@Christoph-Hart That's amazing. Hise still surprises me.

[HISEnberg]

Thanks for sharing the video @d-healey !

I think phase alignment is more of an immediate concern for me, personally. Spectral morphing (which would be a bit different then harmonic alignement) sounds like a cool topic, but I imagine i would just go down the wavetable route to accomplish a similar result.

You said you have a "tool" that does this, is this a HISE script which will track the 0-crossings of the sample and delay the transitions of one note to the next (similar to what is described in the Ivy video)?

I am trying to wrap my head around how this would be accomplished. Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

I am picturing having to write a MIDI processor that would:

• Track the sample’s playback position.
• Detect zero-crossings in real-time.
• Trigger a phase-aligned transition when a new MIDI note is received.

Am I on the right track or is this over-thought and you have a better method?

[d.healey]

@HISEnberg It's a standalone application I commissioned a few years ago. It takes in multiple samples of different dynamics and outputs the same samples phase aligned to each other. It's not perfect, sometimes the attacks sound a bit weird, but most of the time it does a good job.

@HISEnberg said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

Would you use three different Samplers to enact that transition, or are you able to accomplish it using Round Robins?

I use the built in group crossfade feature.

If you want to build a similar thing in HISE I think Loris would be your friend.

[HISEnberg]

@d-healey yes thank you.

I was just re reading the post on @iamlamprey NEATBRAIN system to see if I could gain some insights on this topic. I haven't really dug into Loris but this seems like a proper opportunity to do so.

[iamlamprey]

@HISEnberg NEATBrain doesn't use any crossfading shenanigans, it just loops a single cycle at its fundamental frequency to simulate a wavetable synth

[clevername27]

@d-healey Isn't morphing just interpolating between the amplitudes of FFT bins?