Smoother Dynamic Crossfades

[Levitanus]

I suppose samples should be phase-alignment even WITH such technology. Just for the performance. If You are remember AET (which sucks), it eats a lot)))
More than, we have more predictable behaviour, when know exactly when morph will come (I mean, the biggest problems are because of broken vibrato between samples). If samples are aligned in the host, and starts momentary, it produces the best fades. I've recorded 3 notes singed by my wife, and was lazy, while making attack samples. And here are lots of sounding problems now)

[d.healey]

I don't mean an EQ morph like the AET I mean a sonic audio morph:

http://www.zynaptiq.com/morph/
http://www.hakenaudio.com/RealTimeMorph/
http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Kelly/soundmorphing.html
https://www.dynamictonality.com/spectools.htm
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/23311835.2015.1102116

[Christoph Hart]

I suppose they all work using a FFT spectrum matching algorithm (which is basically the same thing as AET, but maybe with a better implementation)?

[d.healey]

I'm not sure if that's how it's done with image or video morphs, they use interpolation. I suppose the equivalent in audio would be to take two samples and interpolate the frequency and amplitude over time creating a nice smooth morph rather than just a frequency or amplitude crossfade. I came across a really good example a while ago but typically I can't find it now!

Edit: Even more typically I found the link after making this post :) - http://cmc.music.columbia.edu/musicandcomputers/chapter5/05_06.php

[d.healey]

Christoph, I just came across this. Could something like this be implemented in HISE to morph between dynamics - http://spectmorph.org/ ?

[Christoph Hart]

Sounds interesting, I'll take a look. I don't know it it is suitable for realtime processing, but maybe you can use this to convert your samples to multi-velocity wavetables and import them into the wavetable synth in HISE.

[Lindon]

seems t be implemented in a VST plugin so it might work real-time.

[d.healey]

Yes it looks like it's real time. If it isn't then the analysis must be done before hand so that it can be morphed in real time (which would also work for dynamics or other morphing effects). Sample libraries with morphing like this would be a game changer.

[d.healey]

Another possibility - http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Kelly/soundmorphing.html

[HISEnberg]

@d-healey @Christoph-Hart did you guys ever make progress on this topic? I realize HISE is quite robust in terms of crossfading, but it would be pretty amazing to see some automatic phase-alignment going on.

I just started exploring this topic with regards to samplers, but it is quite interesting and it seems to me like it has a lot to offer in terms of workflow.

[d.healey]

@HISEnberg Nope

[Robert Puza]

@d-healey

Please explain the question.
Do you mean to equalize the sound differences between samples velocity1 and velocity2? (For example)

that the velocity crossfading we have is not enough?

I like the topic of dynamics, I just want to understand this question correctly.

[d.healey]

@Robert-Puza This thread was initially started to discuss audio morphing. There are a lot of links earlier in this thread that give an explanation of the concept. This one is probably the most clear - https://spectmorph.org/

[Robert Puza]

@d-healey ok. I'll look..

but if you compare morphing to a picture, ...it sounds to me like you're talking about fractal geometry. (The equational answer to the truth that a tree is not a triangle and a cloud is not a sphere.)

If Hise fills in the missing samples - is that also morphing?

If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

[d.healey]

@Robert-Puza said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

If we tell the software that between 1 and 10 samples, let it create 1000 steps to change one to the other. - is that Morphing?

Probably :)

[Robert Puza]

@d-healey https://youtu.be/5JwnSDIHN2w?si=yG7zx9fntYSURs99

With an image it's like this (with a fractal equation) we design 2 images and specify how many images should be created between them. But it's a simulation of natural phenomena. Is it Morphing?
Are you thinking of something similar with sound?

[Robert Puza]

This post is deleted!

[VirtualVirgin]

Sample Modeling instruments do essentially what you are asking about here, so it's definitely do-able.

"All Samplemodeling instruments exploit Dr. Giorgio Tommasini’s patented 'Harmonic Alignment' technique, which ensures for the first time seamless transitions across virtually infinite dynamics, from pianissimo to fortissimo."

About Us - Samplemodeling

ABOUT US a look inside the company More than 20 years of research and development A story of innovation and dedication aimed at helping musicians and composers to freely express their musical ideas. How it all started Samplers and synthesizers have been for decades the cornerstones of virtual music. The virtues and drawbacks of each […]

Samplemodeling (www.samplemodeling.com)

I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

You should probably ask Aaron Venture some questions, as his instruments are doing something similar:

"Phase-aligned samples result in no perceived cross-fades between the layers; the response is smooth, musical, and sounds like the real thing."

Infinite Brass — Aaron Venture

Your personal live brass ensemble - playable virtual instruments for NI Kontakt. Perform all articulations with infinite variety. Build your own sections from 26 solo brass instruments and position them as you please in 3 different real spaces, then dial in your preferred mix of 3 different microphone sets.

Aaron Venture (www.aaronventure.com)

[d.healey]

@VirtualVirgin said in Smoother Dynamic Crossfades:

I can't seem to find any more information on the patent, but if I come across something I will post it.

I have asked them directly about this and they have not responded. As far as I can tell there is no patent. But if there was a patent, which they say was filed in 2004, then it expired this year (assuming it's filed in the US and they didn't get any extension).

Harmonic alignment/phase alignment is not the same as morphing. There are a number of methods for phase alignment, I have a tool that will phase align sustain samples, you can also achieve pretty much perfect phase alignment by flattening the pitches of samples, but it does remove some of the humanity from them so you need to add it back with modulators.

[Robert Puza]

@Christoph-Hart That's amazing. Hise still surprises me.