New to HISE, the forum – and a question about Voice Spread

[inlandempire]

Hi All
I am new to HISE developing (apart from a little Max 4 Live).

I am working on my first instrument — a small sample based synth, and would like do have any second voice pan left and any second right light know from classic Oberheims and modern Sequential synths. I will have multiple samplers (OSCs) so I am looking to implement globally.

The important thing here is that any voice wail sustain (if long)...in ex. Left channel regardless of if a new note is triggered (in the right channel). I been looking into multiple Scriptnode nodes like routing.event.data, jpanner, container.split but since this is totally new land to me I have still not successful ;-) Since we are not talking about a simple audio panner I am more into something that maybe requires some math fed into some kind of split function.

It should be straightforward I am sure.
I have looked on the forums, yet not found advice that I could use.

Thanks

[dannytaurus]

@inlandempire Following this because I'd like to know the answer too.

Lots of the UVI soft synths have a voice spread feature that allows to set a wide pan between alternate notes/voices too.

[inlandempire]

@dannytaurus
Yes, I have one of their libraries too. I have a feeling that I am close solving it, yet still far.

[Lindon]

@inlandempire cant you just use two samplers one panned left one panned right and then alternate passing notes into each one....by say modifying their MIDI channel and having a MIDI channel filter in each sampler...

[inlandempire]

@Lindon
Yeah... butI think that is the quick and heavy fix. But with ambitions to have 3 samplers (OSCs) then I end up with a mess of six in total. I really believe it is done with 10 lines of scripting.

[Lindon]

@inlandempire

okay your call:

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[inlandempire]

@Lindon Thanks – Exactly where I want to end, though I still will have to figure out the logic in doing the same with just one sampler.

Things like these are still tough for me as I think mostly as a musician and producer. So I think in the picture of a midi message triggering either left or right, but running through a stereo amp :-)

[Lindon]

@inlandempire said in New to HISE, the forum – and a question about Voice Spread:

@Lindon Thanks – Exactly where I want to end, though I still will have to figure out the logic in doing the same with just one sampler.

Things like these are still tough for me as I think mostly as a musician and producer. So I think in the picture of a midi message triggering either left or right, but running through a stereo amp :-)

Well, what you seem to be conflating here are signal and note routing...once a signal is audio then you get to pan it left or right, you dont get to decide which side based on the note played - at that point its stereo audio data - coming out of your sampler. it no longer contains any information about the note that generated it.

I think its worth having a model of how the sampler works:

Midi data(notes) arrives at the sampler, and the sampler looks up the correct audio file to play and plays it, then it mixes this audio in with any other audio that it is playing at the time and outputs that as stereo output...this is essentially how all samplers work

Notes (before they hit the sampler) can be routed in several ways - I demonstrated one using the notes MIDI channel. Now as it happens just before its mixed with any currently playing audio you can modify a notes audio - but only gain or pitch - with the available APIs, but there is no API for settings its pan... so you are out of luck there.

You have an edge case here, you can ask @Christoph-Hart if adding an API call e.g. Message.setPan(value) is even possible - and it might be a nice thing to have. But if you want to do what you want within the current HISE engine I cant think of another way - always keen to learn if you or anyone else has a solution....

[David Healey]

What about adding a simple gain module and alternating the pan parameter with each note?

[Lindon]

@David-Healey said in New to HISE, the forum – and a question about Voice Spread:

What about adding a simple gain module and alternating the pan parameter with each note?

..which would then pan all playing data (all notes) to one side or the other...

[David Healey]

@Lindon I think it works per voice, I seem to recall Christoph mentioning it somewhere.

I made a little snippet to test, let me know if this is the right idea.

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Edit: Looks like I might have been thinking of the poly stereo effect, but that won't work with a container.

[David Healey]

Ok it works with a synth group. I was a bit lazy and used a MIDI processor but you could probably use a scripted voice start modulator if you wanted to.

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[Lindon]

@David-Healey interesting...nasty clicking in the audio output when you play more than one voice at a time...and it doesn't seperate out notes playing at the same time here...yeah its panning everything when you have more than one note playing...

[David Healey]

@Lindon said in New to HISE, the forum – and a question about Voice Spread:

yeah its panning everything when you have more than one note playing...

I wonder if a voice start mod would solve that

[dannytaurus]

@David-Healey This doesn't do what I expected it to do. If you extend the release you hear the whole audio signal panning left and right.

I think the request is that once a note is triggered on the left, it plays out on the left, then the next note plays out on the right.

EDIT: Ha! Late with my reply again

[dannytaurus]

@David-Healey Here's a video of how the UVI synths implement it, and what I think @inlandempire is asking for:

https://share.cleanshot.com/ccSNXnWL

[David Healey]

@dannytaurus @Lindon Here's a version with a voice start mod instead, let me know if this is better

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[dannytaurus]

@David-Healey Works!

[dannytaurus]

@David-Healey And using Stereo Width on Stereo FX1 allows to control the width of the effect.

[inlandempire]

@dannytaurus @David-Healey
Yeah it seems a bit more difficult than I expected to be honest – and sorry for the confusion with midi messages kind of triggering a left/right function. That was a bit awkward. :-)

I am fully aware that if we are inside of the sampler we can decide where we want our samples to be panned and when they go out of th sampler, they are panned the way we've panned them.

In the Oberheim domain (at least on the older models – well basically on any analog synth) – each voice has it's own amp with it's own envelope – so basically the amps are panned Left/Right ...(or how you like them to panned if they have exposed individual trim pots).

Thanks for helping on this issue....it's much appreciated.