Scriptnode envelope ?

d.healey

What happens if you leave the frequency knob at 20khz but you use the table envelopes points to set the frequency range?

lalalandsynth

@d-healey That does not seem to work either ....should it ?

d.healey

Seems to work for me, or I'm misunderstanding what you want
Peek 2020-08-20 16-04.gif

lalalandsynth

@d-healey Yes, that seems to work somewhat . But I cannot see how I can have a user set a filter freq on a synth and the envelope being positive from that set value...which is the correct operation?

I think this should work something like this, for modulating parameters .

d.healey

@lalalandsynth said in Scriptnode envelope ?:

I cannot see how I can have a user set a filter freq on a synth

You always throw a spanner in the works :p I didn't know the user needed to set the value.

You could use a knob to set the table point but table points go from 0 to 1 so I don't know what the formula is to convert that to a frequency value. I think some googling will help you with the calculation, or maybe @Christoph-Hart knows.

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lalalandsynth

@d-healey hhehe ;)

On a regular synth , the envelope on the filter will add to the cutoff position , unless of course its inverted where it will subtract from the cutoff.

As it stands it seems not possible to make the standard behaviour which rules out a lot of synth emulations, so i was hoping that until this is fixed i could hack it somehow with scriptnode.

lalalandsynth

Also, lots of clicks and pops when holding one note and playing another fast.

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Casey Kolb

The whole HISE modulation system is unipolar like this and it drives me insane. Very unusual behavior for sure.

The only hacky workaround I can think of (other than overhauling to scriptnode) is to set the backend value of the filter to the top value of the modulation range you want, but set the knob in the interface the middle of the modulation range.

Fortunately, you can achieve pretty much all of the same results with this unipolar system, but it's very unintuitive.

lalalandsynth

@d-healey

So basically , a knob on the synth to control freq on the filter like normal , ie. knob set to freq in properties.
This knob is also converted to 0-1 and hooked up to the table where it tracks the freq set with the Freq slider.

Then when the envelope to filter is engaged , the envelope is already set to the correct freq and when you move the freq/cutoff point you are really moving the table value , disengage and it controls filter like normal

Bunch of hoops , but possible ..However!

You cannot set the amount , the filter now always opens fully. (When the attack portion is over)

You should be able to add envelope to the set cutoff point , in the amount you want.
Basic synthesis :P

lalalandsynth

@Lunacy-Audio said in Scriptnode envelope ?:

Fortunately, you can achieve pretty much all of the same results with this unipolar system, but it's very unintuitive.

Can you expand a bit on this as yes , its driving me insane as well.
If I can somehow achieve a positive envelope (and preferably inverted as well) from the cutoff point , with amount setting, then please tell me how :)

Casey Kolb

@lalalandsynth Yes, totally agree.

I'm not using envelopes but I'm using LFOs all over the engine I'm building, so I'm not sure if the behavior is slightly different, but it's definitely unipolar in the same way.

An example to achieve the same behavior with a filter in bipolar vs unipolar:

Bipolar –

Set knob value to 50%.
Set modulation intensity to 50%.
Knob will modulate from 25% to 75%.

HISE Unipolar –

Set knob value to 75%.
Set modulation intensity to 50%.
Knob will modulate from 25 to 75%.

Obviously that's a pretty stupid example haha, but you can achieve mostly the same results with either. The latter is just more confusing.

Casey Kolb

For something like a macro control, it typically works as a positive unipolar modulation (i.e. starts at 50% and adds the modulation intensity) which I think is what you're referring to.

A good reference point: Serum treats macro modulators this way, but treats LFOs as bipolar sources. I'm sure you already know all this though.

lalalandsynth

Yes, I am referring to how almost all analog synths work when you add an envelope to the filter ...hehehe :)
Everything would be so much simpler if HISE would just stick to how this works normally.

Now obviously this might be fixed (I certainly hope so ) but I was hoping I could do it via scriptnode as it appears to me that the envelope system is unworkable as it stands.

lalalandsynth

Normal Bipolar LFO to filter behaviour, and in fact it does the same for Pitch .
As you can hear , it adds and subtracts from the set cutoff point.
link text

Normal Positive going envelope FROM cutoff point, only adding to it ! Unless you swicth the invert button in which case it will subtract from the cutoff point.

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Another example
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Casey Kolb

100%. I'm with you haha

Lindon

..and theres definitely a click in the envelope...

Christoph Hart

Does the click go away if you wiggle the hold knob? I remember a glitch there that appeares sometimes...

Lindon

@Christoph-Hart nope - sorry it doesn't.

dejans

I must mention I'm quite new to SN, but as I was messing around I came up with this partial solution, but have no clue how to do a proper envelope for the filter. As it stands, the filter cutoff is modulated via the Gain envelope...

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lalalandsynth

@dejans said in Scriptnode envelope ?:

m quite new to SN, but as I was messing around I came up with this partial solution, but have no clue how to do a proper envelope for the filter. As it stands, the filter cutoff is modulated via the Gain envelope...

Thats not bad actually , probably better to use a "muted" osc specifically to drive the envelope follower(Or even skip it and use the synth to drive it ) , that way the attack and release on that osc can be used as the Filter envelope AR. Needs some routing but...
This way we are stuck with a monophonic envelope but its something !

Thanks for sharing.

EDIT! I can get a Bipolar LFO from Cutoff Point ! Seems to work ... FINALLY !
Some speed problems on the filter I am testing 13 hz and up and it stops doing anything.

Now if I could only make this modulation appear for the main interface , wonder if that is possible somehow ?

QUESTIONS/ things to test.

1 . Is it possible to tempo sync the scriptnode oSc/Lfo ?
2 Is it possible to delay the onset of the lfo , maybe using a ramp triggered by a synth ...hmm , that should be possible?
3. Can I add the filter envelope to the lfo signal?

If this can be achieved we are moving closer to standard synth operation.

Bipolar filter modulation...

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Bipolar Filter modulation with delayed onset of LFO... Needs a bit of routing work but a POC.

HiseSnippet 2297.3oc6a0DaiabEdnkm0q0ZuYaiQ+CEApat3ftUPx1aRWzCRqkr2HT60xVNaBPKf6rjijILIGVRJsVIs.E8GfbK4XaAZ60hdn.8VxotHm6BDfsnnGSNzCEI.w8PxgbIYdyPIRJRaSKu9G4t7vtZdyLjey668dy6MjttCSk55xbPJStYWaJRYJbitVdaWYahtEpVUjx2B2T2vi5Ps53Qc81xU0Q21yhoQQK10l35R0PJJYtCLdkIGGIt1qzhDChkJMPDBcOltJcEcScu.o0K+C0MLVlnQ2T2LznWnbMUlUElAqMGaYvEP1D0cHsn2k.CaLLR4RKoo6wbZ3Q33BoL9hLstM1l8.K43umtq98MnPihnF7ajT7xLCM.wfTTks0Mzp2SG3hPJ35AZjLRMxL3U00z6KOPybMQG4BlQX8gxXGD7JFFdERM7PgP23RzwAASqsAwKJx.5vuCclUDjUyxiZ4p60MLcclB2uBtttm51Ii2wR.ubh5jFu9j+z3kZ1jp5E.1wwK+ZCKSmrgXgjLDUpGy07qhqyL5ZuMyRWcYgOo.PShkMJd.9iHzxNzeZapkZOs3C+zcaUd8vl.qBtz8a+MJudahw.Z8E0sYFDmiqEzQveb7TZB80v8Wf4Ngr6GRx6pRTiwqr7Z9Nm7ekq+Zn3gYruWoA4tex67b+mRPLyZATb42p7qR5PaxbLkOvfouBsE+AEVxlTSaFONuZXxsgIi4sstUqnQhmo7JLl8RVDtZPK7Mo91DW5ZMa5R8Beapz10iY1CKhP0M7n1UIdDjxOB+hKjme076B+6spv+m4W6IS6XgDxjNpLA5arTZz8rBlrOkAb547HsRDGwU4b+dCPjrbiL6k8Mw9AIEZ4QGbeU75mu.qebyqfanaQE4j5GnGZmChuj6NTKpSrXnCr026m1TQsScpnqo5we7a5PrbsYtgi092aPM02jYAZjfm1q3RAigM.UajPkLhShcwC4yWjINmFDu1NBN51lr1V8ve44m+iJoj4jdK3+eNk3LoCtGR5.OiDiSfu8KWswF9g3D+N2RVcnFLaZTq4UYVLYNegMC1f54n2pE0ILhSbYbaOOdkSUZ6zIhGPUpJoaLoxAGWxJTNzBK9k4jRraWeAevaVtAOMf.+PdFKe8GtA0fRbi3YsjJKZZmGI09grMNNklFSikKxbB+9y6go8wpjQNeC1ovByhQA85yf8MXGITrWE66KMJnZOvp6yLpUc+vGNRIt9JKtg3zz3OSo+hrYtkesn6AHEiT9K3krZwyLHupCkCmpt12k58.lyNyd8pMpe8W3GLc1oy1rskJnlyY6PsINzMY0MHcm0kXZaP44SPuQt6avT2og9qSegruQ1Iy9yylKzjDfbQXDyptMwxhZ3FeXPBQVdNLiYsZadepyMx0gXzN39E634lHc5MlUMKcu0ro9CKxZnm3BnvnLPZePEHJAyfMXs83U4tJguC5t7cItaayF7T6ToU7WsbYJiAomIaW.ZKR8hZoIZ7E7K+NKBsU76rXuNQ.Nn7jyPHeBRX.3+a9u.1Fi4bFHUrAX1kIpb0U25DdhtbeFdJmP3HpSd09FmWBlQQDGvCB0U35gHhUx.21dIsJweEloI.Jnjb+e+p5ZviCqbC9HjVbavsSfnJq5FdiZf4pSbHlTOpCb+GKhSRFtF1l53oSAML7nkKXwRaB.6SfcsM3oauuKSY2mTqs8AgYBgvrXSllTYGAjyDBj8GwoLNmPhyKKSWg4pxqTQV3SL8oCMeP+mI1JQWCh3dPKdD9LxyqjWODTl.5dPHC34Wu88Mf7aUxfB1lXShSKpmHvcfgGnf50heqpwSY1wyOQYcK+aXvFIqR1c.YWq7JrGPcFn1OdMZ11wjdsxvIWAwICuYZicnOPp0ij6sv+TjLaLTfRCj+8+N35cKEGx4SDxKTNAH+lONBj6cOCC4r3B4matacqB2TDS4JAGbZ.vez+.tFuLJ8558R.3ERD36UJIccgintdJAtyIqONFVPR+kIk90t5sli64NfyxUwl7+OuemmIdJgO42A77OT+.kimevdkRue.mGBwMuwL+067gu9u9.3lIvxGVbGgPgwvXy1FQYjrRFAje1G25hEC7wq+NO2u4i9akBy.WBXfhWXnfrmyofOa1e7a8de5+tzfKJv4OpiAQSKQVAj+TGimrrhbJ+yAbLrojchRAWQlZkniymbfhRbKqo.PTSCLpb6zLfk.Qg24eM69EjR8j5l9uwO3kRdPT3BkiQg7zPdRlxBOgje1+8k9UlOpzR6xKHz0ENDAPIFwrKLCdYrpAkLX5wSIciDc8TGoSp832ONYBbBEWEuP2yA7x.0u5GUFbfhf8o8+xnbyCcMJXOgS+1kmld06acH89xFRbKyz3aLu35wQpMQVbyyOvZo2HitV5M1Ces74+w+7mc8+26KVKYvqOXsT4NJ0RM2Ci6KOWh594dXR9xykB7FstUwqLc3pa8zK7yWz8OU+Yq9Xeyk9etJOww8Y6QDDemLHr3biPgMyDB9yfo9uUysZxLL.85.aJ+swZcsHl5pt4iMzQhfpicrr13Q2Rs0FerGti8M+sU9NO5OHCpdY+2VX7Hpnyufdxdubq.Tu.Da94YkC6XbE9tu6tkF0fzMpA00jYpGz6SMhNx7QzPsUA0n3MMFci0O4WdLsiPu8QHT6aeDC0lE2+a4Yfm5unbz7Rgh5l+BU4d9GsSj585kw9woVuSypLNvZ8RWiHtUWx2nfmyNjpIJs47FfXLtP9hnvnU7lLibB9S+tkUTpv3lEhWTp.DAMiPQDMs4Slh3SPvBhiqulF2vAdA4IPbm0rEr9GjmRb0JOTqQ6EaJLM8sxlBujUmb9efdGFTa0Dt9WGgGerS0McVb7BvMzsKdgkE1GCO3rruntjekZhuqdjv..9hCBsqghRUZGcUp+eN.7cwc2wiYe57APbZ7LLIpNrsTkexGfY+kER3QkrD+QhMIdUncthnNR1AheW.YpqoukpJ7s978JhPIOm4Fh4L+PLmEFh4bygXNu3PLmWZHly2+.mC7V+ucaOlo76.iKn9Rx+vPTBRAIC5KAz5FMmM

Improved it a bit ....

HiseSnippet 2792.3oc6bsDaabbFdVRMxVzRN1IpstAoErt4fCjCgHkjsE5ARIQIaESYRoUxIEs.pqVNTZqVtylcWRIlzBDf1C9Vxw1Bj1qE8POmbpBM.8jMP.bNzioEnGJxEmCIG5kz4wRtyvckzpmlJ1KLj47Zmu+my++vYXEGrNx0E6.TFX4V1HfxfP0VVdaLyFZFVf4KBTdYXMCSOjCxpoGx0aUWcGCaOKbUDX5V1Zttnp.Ekj2l1ekA5CvddR9o0L0rzQAUA.2GaniJYT2vKn1JEtqgo4bZUQKaTWn2iWXdcr0LXSbCB1RBGEXqouo15n6oQ6VBHPo+YqZ3gcT8zH3Bnz2z3psT2.ukEu+22v0XMSDsPVfJ4EwqdNrYUJhoeFLyFFlUqzlG3BHuzJAbjjbNxvvELpZzo9.NykXMjNXDh7CkD6E7xJBuQiDdYi.d.Az0GGcDPfq1vTySFYTwgeCFXKIjMukGxx0vqkn35oJbuLrhgm9FQi2DQfWhf5jFu9B+gfyVqFR2K.r8Am6sN4kzJJUBYZ9hvJXyV1afsLzmiYSx.z.Pdgr6g8H.LmC5safrzayE24q1d8BKJpBr.0jtS4qTXwFZlBb8q.FcpoMrwlZNwRCJ4tyFDsGifz6KlpMeWXGhJ8QQWOY7DX6iP5hbjBgklqruQH4So6f6r6mR8Sx2sL5W7Q+v+Sdpuw4CDkEd+BuoVSTMrSc9DFL7Rn0ISjXMKipaiI9y0E0DTqiwdaXXstrG2gKTBism0RiP5UEeIU1PyEUtVMWjm3qYlFtd35swBykrpGxtnlmFP4mAuw3YHO0Fg92Img7mwJe7TFb7onkHlJZuDSR1QjQko83dT4HVx7nmeM.pGqzmYVy56C8cFx3xmcv8EgK1aAVe+lW.pZXgXwd56bmVNM0+R5airPNg7g10RbeZbC4zN1gbVV2iL8K6nY4ZicE8092TQ0MVFaQ4HAy1JtHpxvRTVqjqRrlSjMQb4SHxHGiplWCGlLZp53FVswegwF6KxqjL1xjCPnu887PeOFCG3E3X7bvotSQ0k7cww9b5YsZhLw1HYs4EvVXdrchpAKg7bLVecjiHhijLlxyijgzLMbZJYATDoq0JTs7NGtlRHBzDq9NDgRnWWmJ97GTPkDFPfcHIhku2NKgLQZtRVVypikCu73LdQXLUMFBxIxzL69dc2z9XkKQ5sA6fPlZwYA95K.8UXOSvXuHz2V5r.qcOyhO4Ysr3Odxp3x94nAU2PyFQlR5beAdozy8Vx4D56k9e.yNNK4Igmlkyp+KKM4cvZKNwLrxpSr08lr4MKU5V7xKZ2BOYywVqzM4kmr3baO4czu6R9sO1spkcxJ2Usk+3WS8FEGo4DK632+x07VbjJKbW0avK+FSd2kFYY22Xkfwe+QxbyxY7Kqu0h+zQpMwJV9iWNYslkASan4VBUSJmQZcKYr9FRUdGREUHLAw0KJg2RppG73BxqeTnP4lHGWs51ljLYEsADhJbmG9vQKrDpZC4fBmpgGd8t1dDVLhyaY2PBZEcLjW2bAisk1jSlziu8KRQBdjiPKRE6kvM7HT6BZjXBH3.duF0UIAqpiH50VVHSxDAURPC3jWdTZYVvjHqprBeC4wuwrzxJ9MlsciQXrmBpx1xWes2A8K1s5aRd0.k+BbVq0Ig0lQ2AQn9ht12C4sE1Yyqc0hpUt5q8SFJ0Pop0vRm5iHssCxVyAsLthoVqqwDnHRvvnqmdMSr9lpFuC50R8toFH0uNUZgAw.4zzdbMcehOb2nQya44fMulUi5qgbtd5lZlMBdeg1C4CsQ+ohngRLHRl..fOCkEyo+mIehJcfPBOlVKyZI0bZ5DxqUEMRVUDGzj7anq8gbxn2wSX+zQjEP.b2PsDg6JUsRR5qscFRb7OCtdcJnn6+i+meSipzoCpbcRO3ZHKQjqzkvVPxJmxoqn4nUGwseTRH4QNIgCaib7LPTNLcp4DLizNGE6mC5Rr+8.6JYxa9jh11EDljivySQ34gLNcVv9HIdZv92E3mP.9of0wU4HTh.FVf.5ziSVZXOUJ5W.yCAwt5jL74aXPH9tCJSP68.7cVVizRjHiRx2O+UbQzzqA2m5shN+UZrlIMuPkjffvqVVyYcjGKfm.aHpNY6RjW07jTMc77Svzvx+EJrdl11cU2knq8hb5ZOS.fUrsCU6kJP2wWpKZwEEU2DsEmqKkyJyUCaQ7Pn.DGH+G98zmONeXHmIRHOdgHfLINBQH29cJB4TvQyjK2jSN5D9AqErq7cgkuLOH975mDAvGMRf+j7QwqG8.xqGjg6z78UJDV.b6kA313tFqmiXE2kwxEg0I+eF+FepXoHFcbWV96qcfxQyN3I4iuc.QNHHad2g+q29e8N+18P1bNHexBaHH3FCBq2vTVhjhKQn02Crdw2pj.+fOaJx+9PICi9oRfr8ThfiKChT83hiu9Z+72+u+U+y7cSTT5V1HQqZ0HkPz5etQxwqT4QOj97Y4Ek.8CsQZaJKBt.OLKVC8lx.EkvZVCRAw7UojjayZYCDSz5DCCnrcmDiQdblSmu1b52r+dICGuPHYHIljiy3WHhoe0+8l+l5OJ+raSRt10ktSbTtnjdmbAAmdjDVLQZcG37fbiJVSOsc7k7YhHA1M4y4fQjNVuQ9jwO4c+kWYlYRDxP9G1P2Lj1NyonAi+Jrml9A10zXZefhhbU13XzLF64wRo1vWj3G2EsztmxzR69t+zx+6O9m+5q9keJiVRBWDzEDtbgCPpX41IrQdtH4841IJi7bw.uxo8x1S5Pn.za4W5aZ8mp7REeru5RmSIV.taOLvY4cXH7xcT+k4Ni5OseARYXHx+fErZMroIkG2k20WAVskkVcCc2Lg55YNmsINRZgDudwVKjz282fehe2L+nG8gbmsm2+KuOrmVPuKnGn820bDnt6jhy0qlT7ocrguZgS8zuRHINF.VEYp0ZUytiix0ayLsa5Yrst6fHTd0HVfA.1KgRQJSEDZJEEJCRhhc6UYb+t7.eIdlwcZ94dcOZNvjiYgIZXmTliYGufO3.nR8AGvXVRA6bVT6ZVeuBxY9Q2Pkw5s1pkCltz9rsKrsaUZaWZ6C7nrkKml4zuma4hbV7rsRomcSVR7r2lrrqEj9JU622j0vzilQMHto1G.YHbzLYkVhgcTSDGv681ebAEkYvD4L6jrvXvAEELZ3a.dj1Lj9yjBruSy4qRTDnm9tHrjNCX93y2GDNqUyz9GH98Cp7cF3SN.SenLciqLfF46yNx.1xro8nKXE2.xNDxf1CMdxff3f6RNvCW6jSN7fO4PGs4qOyq7E+6a7xwTNrx7rqVGmAPOGXB9mUTJhZZniZeZSKhb2zCaepehAGt8c4gdscBtKOeGX6qI3tbUdRbZeUdxJ9l6psbx22AuFVxcmWkTunj2bDxKq3NW0tRgdd9BUzrjdYjx410CXJvOHGUDgZpVN3TKId6LaX5hXqvK7d+bgpyIVc2mKUX7NvixWoFg9uOWhY3yuRQGiWonAZiQUC5ojs80HhgwWjXyWSqgo2I4kKR7xBG5R9Px51vhD45I287QIlxqqHdOeR+sieEDR9L4uBBw2Bk32rGPReZrb6owbTWS2AupN+vySM8NOqFBcaw94WY.3BzxoyBZxCFhlSynf5DG3qpqS0NdcB+I5wj6PLlwNDiY7CwXl3PLlabHFyMODi4V64XnqcRuWK045+jJpLK+mhAkfMJII3++J9ghL

Scriptnode envelope ?

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