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    HISE FX and delay compensation

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    • ustkU
      ustk @orange
      last edited by

      @orange @Fortune Which means we have to handle every DAW case differently...?

      Can't help pressing F5 in the forum...

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      • Christoph HartC
        Christoph Hart
        last edited by

        The idea of this entire call is to report to the host how many samples it needs to compensate (= preroll). It‘s a basic feature in JUCE which I‘ve just wrote a simple wrapper for it. Apparently it doesn‘t work for the majority of hosts but there‘s nothing else I can do.

        Now I don‘t have the time currently to go through every host and check whether it works, but we can make a list here with hosts that support / don‘t support this feature, then I can take it to the JUCE team.

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        • Christoph HartC
          Christoph Hart
          last edited by

          Also if anyone finds a useful information in the JUCE forum (just search for setLatencySamples), you‘ll get plenty of topics), I am happy to take that into account.

          Dan KorneffD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Dan KorneffD
            Dan Korneff @Christoph Hart
            last edited by

            @Christoph-Hart I'll take a look on the forms this weekend.

            Dan Korneff - Producer / Mixer / Audio Nerd

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            • orangeO
              orange
              last edited by orange

              I found this threads, they may be helpful. Also I see that they prefer to use setLatencySamples() in prepareToPlay. But we're using it in onInit, could that be the cause?

              https://forum.juce.com/t/cubase-latency-issues/27669

              https://forum.juce.com/t/look-ahead-vs-daws-latency-compensation/30384/2

              https://forum.juce.com/t/vstplugininstance-getlatencysamples/7934

              https://forum.juce.com/t/setlatencysamples-int-newlatency-in-cubase-and-bitwig-in-vst3-win-and-mac/15061/3

              develop Branch / XCode 13.1
              macOS Monterey / M1 Max

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              • Christoph HartC
                Christoph Hart
                last edited by

                Well, onInit comes way before prepareToPlay, so if it's not set correctly by then, we're screwed anyway.

                However, I've encorporated a few things mentioned in the threads:

                • resend the latency update in prepareToPlay if it's different than at the last call
                • add a static delay line to the bypassed processing chain (I thought the host would do this, but it makes sense that it's the plugins job to delay it).

                While the first one is pretty cosmetic, I think the last one might be actually helpful.
                Unfortunately I am not in my studio right now, so I can't test the hosts, but I pushed it to the scriptnode branch so if anyone wants to check if this improves the situation, have a go.

                orangeO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • orangeO
                  orange @Christoph Hart
                  last edited by

                  @Christoph-Hart I've just tried, result is the same :/

                  develop Branch / XCode 13.1
                  macOS Monterey / M1 Max

                  Dan KorneffD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Dan KorneffD
                    Dan Korneff @orange
                    last edited by

                    @orange @Christoph-Hart I just tested latest version of ScriptNode. Cubase is picking up the reported latency.
                    Gotta test to see how accurate it is.

                    Dan Korneff - Producer / Mixer / Audio Nerd

                    FortuneF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • FortuneF
                      Fortune @Dan Korneff
                      last edited by Fortune

                      @dustbro Yeah Cubase can detect the latency value, there is no problem about it. You can also see that in the Cubase plugin manager.

                      But the problem is, wet and dry channels are not in sync. Delay still persists.

                      Dan KorneffD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • Dan KorneffD
                        Dan Korneff @Fortune
                        last edited by

                        @Fortune got it.

                        Dan Korneff - Producer / Mixer / Audio Nerd

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                        • Christoph HartC
                          Christoph Hart
                          last edited by

                          OK, I've committed a fix for a typo that caused crackling when a delayed plugin is bypassed.

                          I've also made a example project with a latency of 200ms - it's just a simple delay without anything else:

                          Link Preview Image
                          hise_tutorial/LatencyTest at master · christophhart/hise_tutorial

                          The Tutorial project for HISE. Contribute to christophhart/hise_tutorial development by creating an account on GitHub.

                          favicon

                          GitHub (github.com)

                          The sample amount will get calculated on the initialisation and the latency will be changed accordingly (so to eg. 8820 samples on 44,1 kHz).

                          I've tested these hosts:

                          • Cubase 9: Latency is reported correctly, both active and bypassed plugins are in sync
                          • REAPER 5: Latency is reported correctly, both active and bypassed plugins are in sync
                          • Ableton 9: Latency is reported correctly, both active and bypassed plugins are in sync

                          Please try your hosts and report back any problems:

                          1. Compile the LatencyTest plugin as FX plugin.
                          2. Load up your DAW and add two audio tracks with the same audio data
                          3. Load the LatencyTest VST plugin into one of them
                          4. Play and check that it's in sync. Bypass the plugin and play again, check that it's still in sync.
                          FortuneF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                          • Dan KorneffD
                            Dan Korneff
                            last edited by

                            💪

                            Dan Korneff - Producer / Mixer / Audio Nerd

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • FortuneF
                              Fortune @Christoph Hart
                              last edited by

                              First of all, you did it, well done @Christoph-Hart !

                              I am pretty impressed. Especially calculating the delay time acording to sample rate and ms conversion multiplying is a clever idea. Yeah it needs some improvements but you did most of the thing. As you can see, you can do it.

                              My check is that:

                              Windows:

                              • It works well on Cubase 10, Reaper 5, Ableton 10, Studio One 4.5, Pro Tools 2019 Ultimate!
                              • In FL Studio 12 & 20- it fails again. I hear 200 ms latency unfortunately :/

                              Mac

                              • Reaper, Ableton, Studio One, Pro Tools did it very good.
                              • In Logic Pro X, When you insert the plugin in the channel, it takes approximately 2 seconds to sync. You can hear fade of the phase shift before synching, after 2 seconds it is in sync. This fade time can be disturbing to some users. You can improve it.
                              • FL Studio 20 - fails again. I hear 200 ms latency unfortunately :/

                              Also I have some questions;

                              • To calculate the delay time , can we take the delay time of the plugin with "getlatency" and use it on "setLatency"?
                              • I tried that code in "if / else statement" but it doesn't work properly. I usedin different oversampling modes, delay time changes when OS is on and off. For setLatency, only first statement works. Can that be done?
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                              • Christoph HartC
                                Christoph Hart
                                last edited by

                                You can improve it

                                How? I am not the Logic developer.

                                FortuneF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • FortuneF
                                  Fortune @Christoph Hart
                                  last edited by

                                  @Christoph-Hart said in HISE FX and delay compensation:

                                  You can improve it

                                  How? I am not the Logic developer.

                                  You are right, it seems like it is a Logic issue.
                                  https://forum.juce.com/t/logic-pro-x-midi-fx-plug-in-latency-compensation-timeshift/23855

                                  What about FL Studio?

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                                  • lalalandsynthL
                                    lalalandsynth
                                    last edited by

                                    What is the status of this issue ?
                                    Do I need to need to do anything manually to take care of latency or does Hise take care of that ?

                                    https://lalalandaudio.com/

                                    https://lalalandsynth.com/

                                    https://www.facebook.com/lalalandsynth

                                    https://www.facebook.com/lalalandsynth

                                    lalalandsynthL 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • lalalandsynthL
                                      lalalandsynth @lalalandsynth
                                      last edited by

                                      @lalalandsynth nudge topic.

                                      https://lalalandaudio.com/

                                      https://lalalandsynth.com/

                                      https://www.facebook.com/lalalandsynth

                                      https://www.facebook.com/lalalandsynth

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                                      • Dan KorneffD
                                        Dan Korneff @Fortune
                                        last edited by

                                        @Fortune said in HISE FX and delay compensation:

                                        With this way, plugin reports delay compensation to the DAW in the very begining of the initialization.

                                        Is there a way to adjust delay compensation after a plugin has been initialized? The amount of latency may change depending on the amount/type of modules enabled. It would be nice to be able to compensate for this.

                                        Dan Korneff - Producer / Mixer / Audio Nerd

                                        ustkU 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • ustkU
                                          ustk @Dan Korneff
                                          last edited by

                                          @dustbro I wonder if the procedure is not to report the biggest latency, and then compensate IN the plugin for lower latency configuration by adding the difference...
                                          I reckon I've seen that one day but not 100% sure...

                                          Can't help pressing F5 in the forum...

                                          Dan KorneffD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Dan KorneffD
                                            Dan Korneff @ustk
                                            last edited by

                                            @ustk said in HISE FX and delay compensation:

                                            report the biggest latency, and then compensate IN the plugin

                                            Not a bad idea!

                                            Dan Korneff - Producer / Mixer / Audio Nerd

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