Module Tree Master Dry/Wet Mix

[HISEnberg]

I feel as though I am forgetting something here...

Setting up an FX chain, how do you properly set the Dry/Wet Mix routing? I thought it included:

1. Set the project to use 4 channels
2. Add a routing matrix:
3. Add your dry gain set to channels 1&2.
4. Add your wet gain to channels 3&4.
5. Add the routing matrix (out) to mix the channels together

However I am noticing a -6dB gain drop on the Dry channel with my current setup. Does anyone else do this differently?

Here is an example of what I mean:

HiseSnippet 1503.3oc6YstaSbDEdVauTroWfJZo+bEpUxTQCdcbSaDpBCwwfE3DKbJT9EZ7tisGkYmwZ2YCwspR8QqOB8Qn8MnuAsmYu3c1jEWWCgRpv+vRy4xbNy4x2b73A9BGRPfvGYT6f4yHHi22b3btb5NSwTNpWGEg.IwmHNfDHQ2a9LbP.wEYXT99JILpVAE84Ouy8vLL2gjQBgdhf5PdD0iJynNn8CoLVWrK4.pmlzsZ2yQv2QvDgf2T1rAZF14P7DxdXkXkLQO.GLEY7klXmMsazn0VtaNBiG41b6ViIat0Vsr2b71MZg2FuUis2pQKajwE10kJE9CkXII.YT4dB24CmJdAO1.OgFPGwHpE1ngfkiI2UvbUGQEUzNSoL2Aogo.DxvbPVPqbbP6pl8otzEzyBdWNhgUlF5APiR4cux4bOac2qgl6UfKYn4RUhcoqXNzwmNSlwQ4OWxrGGxliwPdR2UhkEU5OJYti.jfK2vCeHoqOrXgF0gn9MsfutwsqUCxUARqiv9Vc7mqJEr9NqnJmMlPj6NdLwQV+5IrtNnPl7OkHeYxmvJu7GxG879XUQXe5wfVoNHn2NBuYBNrn90yIkZCpcqaYESv5gbwnfZTNixIViC4NRpfaI34zQss9BVcmaZczMp8S0pxDNXl0KV3sGYc6ThtKNx1azv5qREBLZlVcFAr2kOAroxU6PbniHrftBekncwNPludhh2PemWIES7.04rZRTai.h7tRoOcTnjTOkn5qaF6OJqjjQxKaJwXYibAP1etVt3iRkjXzNXFaDzbVu3Pnxozhx6Ijj840ihovlZcRViGWHujMiQ7KjsB7veYJVmG5Mh3CYSLKjrPPnAIeWm4KuqSGTvItpSSPAuGmJ2eFg+xfJPIkppNzDuBDUF0e9gI8mCYTWhOhBsgejYtnIJxw0QXQeeuNXINc6fcFr1LhujpNHFcHGAvsws+UM6PBNTJlEIaRWB.xuxF+3LC+4smquPRNF1ISSkTdBWX69Ty8D9dXF8GItCH9Nfo.baTP33wfLPv4KPdTWWFYfHfpxRYa2uemWPckSWP3WdR6oD5joZWXrWazog2.fUgaHCKyi1ppfSXnLiNDmBFiCletdD8jPvUVMH3keCwp5tWwb.U5LsX+sTA9Kj3Oq82jKz9.yXH4LmshY2e3L51qJm19UMer.Pl.Spr8EL885kOaZTdkst8RsNRYHJeReLfFpJ52KzaHLBhCAN6bN.7B05FpDPx5Fp0pbwPB2MZQoLl1p0FILiVTNiYS05+B9nXtXQByM0YtXgdp4hKFPi5MiQteZlAZ0iwuWxzYO6W6PX3bkROMWeG5YsKX9sd7i.zkABF1+jEhuth+4x9KuaI5J2yMc2erYTH+7jCGURb9wgur4.7aCEDu5HHZ3.mFAQi4YFBRxzhKAAAgdGBx6PPdGBxaOHHos5EhfjxrPDjRIvKEhfTNgYgHHENd16Aimsen7s14yVezUT11dZz0HtZwlqEGatj4SwGQhdZinnymDsdL7CjrtOgS7UUf1KAn82V0GRa1J+PZ66HAW3.eLOXlHfXquyCIdzCfecXPNpmPilEpQy72NHC4425XR4jREJ5BgBM4tX6ThZRd01Pios97qv5l520zmdr9uhbWNFJmFRfSt69ANPfQEm06bGDxBHQ3S15JlQtoN4Gf8cgbnyxtwpxpUS+O7bhW3r54DeCij9p9Sue875mUS8w3Qb1EF+fI.Jo2mNFGxjoTy2F1WvEylJ3zbI8GS.bmISH4pkJ7.cWoD6bndM7iILBNfn+3IOhxIX+9QOaxZEKr+W+RvElu9LyX20RgcX8+imLo74smL4MbGp54yO2joulI.i2zJJca8ee99DSgXV3THkdklB4M8jNnkMEnwolBzC63KdtS7yXqfZtXDEHhwi9C5pZ1Ws1x9juaMR83uzm63jeqNkhMWWE2bcUr05p3WutJt05p32rtJ9s+yJplo3tgRgWbGFB0evtQ+OCFFwiUE0rg9a.MAGDe

This is more or less my setup:

[HISEnberg]

@David-Healey Hmm that could work. It's an FX plugin I am working on however, so I don't believe the send containers are an ideal candidate (could create a feedback loop). I'll try it out though.

Edit: The Dry Gain needs to be at the end of the signal chain (outside the routing matrix). It appears the signal routing is not done serially. You also do not need a second routing matrix node as the signal is summed to stereo at the end anyways.

In my original setup you end up simply attenuating just the Wet Signal by the time the signal reaches the output. This doesn't feel like a totally satisfactory answer, but it gets the job done.

For anyone else who ends up here:

HiseSnippet 1502.3oc6YssaaaCFlx1rq1cGZG5V2kBEa.tCcoVNdYKnXntMNt0n0IF0YsqWUPKQaSDJRCI5z3MLf8nsGg8Hr8Fr2fsepCVRNJtttGVxPyEAf+m4+gORQ2ySZS88kdHiJGLaBEY7g39yDpw6LlvDnNszD7UTOp7.puBcuYSH99TGjgQw6qkvnbITve+8ctGgSD1zDRHzSjLa5iXtLUB0dMeHiyaSbnGvbSIcilcrkhcjb4THZJhqglPrOjLhtGQKVAL5AD+wHiuFSr2zpVsFa4r4.BYfS8saLjt4Va0vZygaWqAYaxV01dqZMrPFWXWGlR50WQTTejQo6Icl0er7EhPG7DlOa.mpWXg5CdNjbaI2QuE0TQ6Llwc5Eml7QHCbujjVwvj1UwcYNr4zSRdWNfgYhFoSfFExFdEyDdVoCuZoBubBIiTgTovP5J391drIpDN534R3NBnZNj.0ozgRnrnB+UA7NRPBgZCWxgz1dvh4ZTEx52zD92MtckJPsxWYdDwyrk2Lcqf4OXFz4rwHpZ2gCo1ppWOh00AERj+oT0oIeDqrxenXvy6RzMgcYGCZEGffd6HcmHEvhpWOiTZCT4V2xLjf4CExA9UXBNSPMGNUXqXRgoTjQGsY8j7p12z7naT4WpTlKsIbyWLOZOx71wDcluks1nl42DKD3zDsZM.XuqXD3Scn1hZyFP49skdZQaSrgJe0HEuQZKuRJFEA58Y4nr1F9T0cUJO1foJZ0Xh5+cyv3Q6knJRVYiIFJaPH.x9qUxjezpDki1gv4Cfgyp4mB0AUpr7dREceQ0fbJXTyEYMbXt7hLFm5kKaM3g2xTrpXp6.pGTMI7oz4BBCHYm5vm9TWZPA6vttTBJEcDL09SnhSCp.E0ppmPihJPTUv74GGMe1mybndHFLF9I3LYSTPfmFNE8icZQTjXyAVF71Dpmho2HFsnGAvsgi+kwsn9GpjSBjMZJA.4WYmebhi+xlyRuPQOFrDFqkxU5.l6yw6I8bIb1OSc5Q8rAWA31H+oCGBx.ImuB4xbb3zdReltJkXt+7Nuf4nFOmvu8jliorQiScfwdMQmDdC.VkNS4DUVzVcGbDCsaRCwogwDf6mk9Lq2XPvqZHdEbOlxdb9wXgbhQnX+1HFiN35ivgPuIAXIb6e5szoTkNo+KierDPf.Wp88EvdtcxV0LJtxd2Z4adsiXhQcI.pmt4duot8gqZXSg8tP..rPOsgNoGstldsN+2mJbBVTHgokdsQDyfEESXVWu9ef+zLmuHh4loYNeQ5RyEmeQLl6DN89wUlx3HL8kbKrm86snbRl1mmlY9B8rl4bOsNhi.TjdRNwawlu2T4+LU+kOgDbz5qyTboUqEc42yaUmn+TbPJ+7T.GzRb9IfuLtG4rPCwZgfDOpWaAb.qzLsVfY8X3lSEAoXDybQPxEb8C.v08mpNyhttXtIC55h4lLnqnDydRz0.tqD5ZzsfWB5JB8dz02it9dz0yNnqugPPdkte10BSlWB+TxQzfmvHHO9YAqGBeHj48oBpmNKasDvj+XUevrIq7ClsusBBgC7HB+IRepUZK2m5xN.9JP+LTWPi54pQ8rHfpohrlNjTFozoh1PpHkbWrYLw5oIBMeYLFrNik5xNN8WKtqf.sV8ovN2YeeaHwnyyo6N6Mk6SClAsRqXB45oI+.hmCTCsWFpboUCU9k7rgW3L2yFdN3ypy7xlkiiwvit2ENVkKAJwmSLjLkqholczqqTHmLVJXYJzOlBXMiFQyz+j6F5tJEw9vDJWs4iobJwml9gQdDSPIdcCdRj0JWX8J+Ju4Vu9BbX3ZpwKLO+9bHE+e8ygr5Se5m89LcU7ZX.JttYPoz7+lZ4B2d.m6sGJ7Zc6g202PAsru+y3De+mKw1S9b6vmYVCWbw.JPFSD7CnUF2Uu1z5juqrKbXyyssyZpSnX80UwMWWEartJ9sqqhastJ9cqqhe+KWQ8cAt6TkzMbpBtSTucC9c.LLBuNTv.F5eAb1jpbD

Before:

After:

[David Healey]

@HISEnberg I'd probably use a send container/send effect

[HISEnberg]

@David-Healey Hmm that could work. It's an FX plugin I am working on however, so I don't believe the send containers are an ideal candidate (could create a feedback loop). I'll try it out though.

Edit: The Dry Gain needs to be at the end of the signal chain (outside the routing matrix). It appears the signal routing is not done serially. You also do not need a second routing matrix node as the signal is summed to stereo at the end anyways.

In my original setup you end up simply attenuating just the Wet Signal by the time the signal reaches the output. This doesn't feel like a totally satisfactory answer, but it gets the job done.

For anyone else who ends up here:

HiseSnippet 1502.3oc6YssaaaCFlx1rq1cGZG5V2kBEa.tCcoVNdYKnXntMNt0n0IF0YsqWUPKQaSDJRCI5z3MLf8nsGg8Hr8Fr2fsepCVRNJtttGVxPyEAf+m4+gORQ2ySZS88kdHiJGLaBEY7g39yDpw6LlvDnNszD7UTOp7.puBcuYSH99TGjgQw6qkvnbITve+8ctGgSD1zDRHzSjLa5iXtLUB0dMeHiyaSbnGvbSIcilcrkhcjb4THZJhqglPrOjLhtGQKVAL5AD+wHiuFSr2zpVsFa4r4.BYfS8saLjt4Va0vZygaWqAYaxV01dqZMrPFWXWGlR50WQTTejQo6Icl0er7EhPG7DlOa.mpWXg5CdNjbaI2QuE0TQ6Llwc5Eml7QHCbujjVwvj1UwcYNr4zSRdWNfgYhFoSfFExFdEyDdVoCuZoBubBIiTgTovP5J391drIpDN534R3NBnZNj.0ozgRnrnB+UA7NRPBgZCWxgz1dvh4ZTEx52zD92MtckJPsxWYdDwyrk2Lcqf4OXFz4rwHpZ2gCo1ppWOh00AERj+oT0oIeDqrxenXvy6RzMgcYGCZEGffd6HcmHEvhpWOiTZCT4V2xLjf4CExA9UXBNSPMGNUXqXRgoTjQGsY8j7p12z7naT4WpTlKsIbyWLOZOx71wDcluks1nl42DKD3zDsZM.XuqXD3Scn1hZyFP49skdZQaSrgJe0HEuQZKuRJFEA58Y4nr1F9T0cUJO1foJZ0Xh5+cyv3Q6knJRVYiIFJaPH.x9qUxjezpDki1gv4Cfgyp4mB0AUpr7dREceQ0fbJXTyEYMbXt7hLFm5kKaM3g2xTrpXp6.pGTMI7oz4BBCHYm5vm9TWZPA6vttTBJEcDL09SnhSCp.E0ppmPihJPTUv74GGMe1mybndHFLF9I3LYSTPfmFNE8icZQTjXyAVF71Dpmho2HFsnGAvsgi+kwsn9GpjSBjMZJA.4WYmebhi+xlyRuPQOFrDFqkxU5.l6yw6I8bIb1OSc5Q8rAWA31H+oCGBx.ImuB4xbb3zdReltJkXt+7Nuf4nFOmvu8jliorQiScfwdMQmDdC.VkNS4DUVzVcGbDCsaRCwogwDf6mk9Lq2XPvqZHdEbOlxdb9wXgbhQnX+1HFiN35ivgPuIAXIb6e5szoTkNo+KierDPf.Wp88EvdtcxV0LJtxd2Z4adsiXhQcI.pmt4duot8gqZXSg8tP..rPOsgNoGstldsN+2mJbBVTHgokdsQDyfEESXVWu9ef+zLmuHh4loYNeQ5RyEmeQLl6DN89wUlx3HL8kbKrm86snbRl1mmlY9B8rl4bOsNhi.TjdRNwawlu2T4+LU+kOgDbz5qyTboUqEc42yaUmn+TbPJ+7T.GzRb9IfuLtG4rPCwZgfDOpWaAb.qzLsVfY8X3lSEAoXDybQPxEb8C.v08mpNyhttXtIC55h4lLnqnDydRz0.tqD5ZzsfWB5JB8dz02it9dz0yNnqugPPdkte10BSlWB+TxQzfmvHHO9YAqGBeHj48oBpmNKasDvj+XUevrIq7ClsusBBgC7HB+IRepUZK2m5xN.9JP+LTWPi54pQ8rHfpohrlNjTFozoh1PpHkbWrYLw5oIBMeYLFrNik5xNN8WKtqf.sV8ovN2YeeaHwnyyo6N6Mk6SClAsRqXB45oI+.hmCTCsWFpboUCU9k7rgW3L2yFdN3ypy7xlkiiwvit2ENVkKAJwmSLjLkqholczqqTHmLVJXYJzOlBXMiFQyz+j6F5tJEw9vDJWs4iobJwml9gQdDSPIdcCdRj0JWX8J+Ju4Vu9BbX3ZpwKLO+9bHE+e8ygr5Se5m89LcU7ZX.JttYPoz7+lZ4B2d.m6sGJ7Zc6g202PAsru+y3De+mKw1S9b6vmYVCWbw.JPFSD7CnUF2Uu1z5juqrKbXyyssyZpSnX80UwMWWEartJ9sqqhastJ9cqqhe+KWQ8cAt6TkzMbpBtSTucC9c.LLBuNTv.F5eAb1jpbD

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After:

[dannytaurus]

@HISEnberg I think you posted the same image twice there

[ustk]

@HISEnberg For what I can see, that's the spirit of dry/wet in the module tree. However the gain difference you see is probably due to the last rmOut matrix being redundant with the "master" routing matrix. Since both dry & wet are already joined to the stereo out in there, you don't need to merge the wet to the dry prior to that.

The way Hise handles the signal (at least visually for the operator) can be very weird and confusing (ie. direct connections can act as send instead of true re-routing)

[HISEnberg]

@dannytaurus Indeed I did, I'll update it!

@ustk you're also right that the rmOut is redundant. I also agree the signal routing can be a little awkward in HISE, it is somewhat related to the Module Tree structure being locked in a vertical display.

I'd personally prefer to use a routing matrix more akin to the AudioPluginHost found in JUCE where you can freely route all the audio/midi channels (MetaPlugin from Plugin Doctor or Kushview's Element are other examples which seem loosely based on the AudioPluginHost]).

@Christoph-Hart I'll tag you here for a feature request update to this. I don't imagine it being a top priority but seems worthwhile to share my thoughts about it!