Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise
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@David-Healey said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
What does that mean?
I have build a single kick sample midi virtual instrument to test it on high BPM, and sometimes, I feel little slowdown, it's discrete but enough to be a problem for a professional plugin.
Maybe it's just a feeling, My computer is a professional one with enough power to run many plugins in realtime, so I don't know what to think or how to fix
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@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
Maybe it's just a feeling
Do you have a way to measure it?
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@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
Is it possible to use 96000hz samples for the studio quality ?
If you're chasing the highest quality possible, be aware that the sampler built into Hise doesn't have perfect sample-interpolation or antialising.
This will only matter if you intend to do extreme repitching of your samples. Some really high level producers are picky about this, and I only mention it because transients can be slightly smeared when you repitch sounds using an imperfect sampler.Hise can be modded with third party dsp though. You can always swap out and upgrade the sampler later on if you need higher specs. It sounds to me like Hise will work fine as your framework.
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@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
I just need some helps to manage licenses.
I don't know how to do it the best way.
ILok or distant server connection or local token or both ?Right well....
iLok - you want to avoid at the start - if you want to go this path it will require some custom C++, and frankly for the number of users you would lose because you are using iLok its prob. not worth it.
Server Connection - by this I think you mean HiseActivate, which I use a fair bit - but again this is non-trivial (especially for a beginner) HiseScript code... you can of course build your own server-side system with its own API....
Local Token - well this is "simplest" and you will likely want to use the RSA key-pair method - again I've done a few for people as well as myself - I can license you the code if you want which includes a key generator.... itself written in HISE.
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@griffinboy thanks for your precious details. Normally I will not allow to pitch samples.
This Plug-in will come with an already mixed drumkit.
The main idea is to make a easy production weapon.
One drumkit only.
So I hope it should be OK. -
@Lindon OK I see, you are right, I have to keep things easy for now.
One licensing process I love is the the soothe 2.
I don't know how to reproduce.It's pretty simple. There two choices possible :
- User can pay full license directly for ever.
Or - User can rent-to-own where payments contribute to the final price. You pay monthly until the total is reached.
The idea is to make the Plug-in affordable. As a web developer I already have some servers and databases. So I don't really know what to do first.
Maybe I will try hise subscriptions and see. - User can pay full license directly for ever.
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You will likely be fine in that case.
There will be slight pitch shifting when people use the plugin with a different project sample rate to your samples.
But it will be slight and you won't lose much. -
@griffinboy OK, you're right, I will consider this aspect.
Thanks for all. -
@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
Maybe I will try hise subscriptions and see.
HiseAuthorise - isnt a subscription service , none of the options I mentioned are a subscription service.
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Hi everyone,
I'm moving forward with my "Virtual Drum Kit" project (a raw, modern metal drum VST). We have established a roadmap to build a solid MVP.
Before I lock down the recording process and the HISE scripting architecture, I would love to get your "sanity check" or best practices on four specific strategic decisions we've made. My ultimate goal with these inquiries is to finalize a professional Scope Statement to guide our production.
1. The "Hybrid IR" Approach (Room Mics)
To save resources and simplify phase management, I am planning to record the kit very dry/direct, and strictly simulate the overheads/room sound using custom Impulse Responses (IRs) triggered via a Convolution Reverb on a Send bus.
The Goal: Cleaner mix, lower file count.
The Question: For a high-end Metal sound, do you think this approach is convincing enough compared to real multichannel samples? Has anyone successfully released a commercial acoustic drum kit using this "Direct + IR" method in HISE?
2. Routing & Multi-Out Strategy
I am aiming for a flexible routing system. The plan is to offer 19+ outputs to the DAW via aux or inserts.
Configuration: I need a mix of Mono outputs (for Kick, Snare, Toms, Spot Mics) and Stereo outputs (for the Room/Reverb return).
The Question: What is the standard/most stable way to handle a mix of Mono and Stereo outputs in HISE? Should I set the plugin to 32 channels (16 stereo pairs) and hard-pan the mono elements internally, or does HISE support true mono channel routing to the DAW easily?
3. Velocity & Round Robins
We are aiming for 24 Round Robins per velocity layer to avoid the "machine gun" effect on fast rolls. Regarding velocity, do you think that steps of 20 (e.g., 0, 20, 40...) provide enough resolution for natural transitions?
The Question: Are there any specific performance pitfalls (RAM/CPU) I should be aware of with such a high RR count in HISE? Is using Sampler.setAttribute(Sampler.RRGroupAmount, 24) sufficient, or should I look into custom script handling for better performance?
4. Cymbal Swell & Repetition
When a drummer hits a cymbal once, the sample start and end are straightforward. However, in real life, when a drummer continues to hit the same cymbal, the sound changes due to the cymbal's movement (wash).
The Question: Do you have any ideas on how to manage this build-up without losing too much stick attack on subsequent hits?
Thanks a lot for your insights. I want to make sure the foundation is solid before we start the recording sessions and development. -
@YOKAN I'm no metal guy, but omitting overheads / room mics sounds like a weird compromise. You might get away with simulating room mics with an IR, but the overheads will give you the stereo information you'll need for a halfway realistic drumkit.
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@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
I would love to get your "sanity check"
Have you built large projects like this before with other platforms?
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@Christoph-Hart thanks a lot for this precision.
I don't really know how to manage samples for room or for OH.... What to do when many elements are played in the same time e.g snare + kick + hihat => ??? OHMy idea is to get direct track compare to OH track and deconvolver. In my mind this should works. The main idea is to keep the possibility to change the studio room later maybe using some sweep or white noise (not for this plugin version at all).
I don't know deeply Hise, that's why I asked before starting anything.
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@David-Healey I'm Web app developer and metal producer.
I just know, step by step, how to build a project 'agile' way. And all projects must wait for a solid roadmap before starting anything.
I know UI and UX design, CSS and Javascript that's why Hise sounds good to me. -
@YOKAN you can use multisamples in HISE, that's precisely what this system is made for.
A kick sample will then consist of two or three separate files. You'll route the close mics to individual channels and OH / room channels to the same channel output for each drum, then they'll add up as a OH / room channel.
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@Christoph-Hart OK perfect, I will try this. Thanks a lot.
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@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
Velocity & Round Robins
We are aiming for 24 Round Robins per velocity layer to avoid the "machine gun" effect on fast rolls. Regarding velocity, do you think that steps of 20 (e.g., 0, 20, 40...) provide enough resolution for natural transitions?
The Question: Are there any specific performance pitfalls (RAM/CPU) I should be aware of with such a high RR count in HISE? Is using Sampler.setAttribute(Sampler.RRGroupAmount, 24) sufficient, or should I look into custom script handling for better performance?This seems like over kill for RRs - especially if you add some sort of scripted humanisation of each note, so gain, pitch and timing.
I've built a few DRUM Rompers e.g. https://www.drum-drops.com/products/mapex-heavy-rock-kit-kontakt-pack?_pos=2&_sid=f372c5dee&_ss=r
and we never went anywhere near this number of RRs...
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@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
I'm Web app developer and metal producer.
In that case I would say, don't do it... yet
Build some smaller, simpler projects first so you get a good feel for HISE. You'll discover workflows you didn't consider, and find issues you need to workaround.
Once you've done this you'll find making your larger project is a much easier and smoother process.
I know you'll probably ignore this advice but ye be warned
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https://youtu.be/r5sgCYr0cdc?si=cX5IC--VsQyL83yq
Here he said 10 velocity and 10 samples by velocity. Maybe this should be enough for all elements except for kick where I really think that 24 should be the minimum to avoid similar sounds in a big amount of kick.
David, thanks you so much for your advice.
Like I said, a already follow you videos and make some plugin for testing some concept.In this case I don't know where are the difficulties ?
I just talk to the community to get the best advices possible for this small project.This is my only one and simple kit :
const var MidiMap = {
// KICKS
"KickSlow": 36,
"KickFastL": 37,
"KickFastR": 38,// SNARES "SnareHit": 39, // Rimshot "SnareGhost": 40, // HATS "HatClosed": 41, "HatSemi": 42, "HatOpen": 43, "HatPedal": 44, // TOMS "Tom4": 45, "Tom3": 46, "Tom2": 47, "Tom1": 48, // CYMBALS "RideBow": 49, "RideBell": 50, "Crash1": 51, "Crash2": 52, "Crash3": 53, "China1": 54, "China2": 55, "Splash1": 56, "Splash2": 57};
I will found some mistake on my way, pretty sure, but I already built a small 'one kick' plugin, I think that's should be OK. If not I will found some
Solutions.
I have worked on the ui design, the art work, the mood board, the logo, etc.And this is an MVP version.
If you know where is the difficult part, please this why I ask here, so don't hesitate to tell me.
I am 40, I have build CRM and 3D web application, ARcore mobile application.... I know how to produce big amount of tasks need products. I'm not afraid.... For now!
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@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:
This is my only one and simple kit :
const var MidiMap = {
// KICKS
"KickSlow": 36,
"KickFastL": 37,
"KickFastR": 38,If the indexes are sequential why not use an array instead of an object?
