Different Encryption Types in HISE?

[Christoph Hart]

@aaronventure everything can be cracked, sure.

[Lindon]

@Christoph-Hart said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

If that was the procedure, the cracked release will contain a modified binary (which is most often the case, because otherwise the "crack release" will contain only a 200kb keygen which I've never encountered in my life so far).

Well thats exactly what happened to me with Atmosia 2.0 - people are still downloading (at my cost) the binary and trying to apply the keygen generated code - even if I went to RSA with V2.5.... so its def. a problem.

[Lindon]

So to be clear -

• Yes everything can be hacked...
• RSA and many other schemes(including the unlocker) can be hacked by a dedicated serious pirate group

But here we are asking for a better encryption method NOT because this will stop the dedicated pirate groups hacking the code and delivering a hacked-binary - because this wont, but more on this in a minute. No we are trying to stop the keygen attacks only. These are the worst for reasons @Casmat outlined in https://forum.hise.audio//post/73852

So first to deal with @Christoph-Hart s issue that "key gens are rare", which I think is a manifestation of the black-swan problem, just because you haven't seen them doesn't make them rare. Because my experience is that they are not rare at all.

Second - why keygens are really bad: Because they generate valid keys, and no matter how many places and how many timed-to-activate-only-at-a-future-date elements you put in your code then the key gen defeats them in one single step.

I strongly recommend everyone interested in this stuff go look at the advice and experiences Urs Heckman of (UHe) has posted in the DSP forum at KSPAudio, here's some of his advice:

• have your validation code in several places
• have your validation code additionally execute at some future date

There's more but both these things are an attempt to fight off the dedicated hacking groups with their shipped-hacked-binary approach. Both these things are utterly defeated at the outset by a KeyGen.

[d.healey]

@Lindon said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

people are still downloading (at my cost) the binary

Why are they able to download it from you without a valid purchase?

[Lindon]

@d-healey demo

[d.healey]

@Lindon Is there a way you could limit the content in the demo until they activate it with a license key that you can confirm is genuine via a server call? And then download the additional content.

[Lindon]

@d-healey said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

@Lindon Is there a way you could limit the content in the demo until they activate it with a license key that you can confirm is genuine via a server call? And then download the additional content.

of course...but.....

[d.healey]

@Lindon said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

I think is a manifestation of the black-swan problem

Sign up to some of the cracker groups on FB, you'll see keygens

This just popped up in my feed. FB doesn't do anything when you report the groups...

[Casmat]

@d-healey yup haha, I had seen the same thing, the thing with keygens is that everyone’s starting to realize that using encryption is the way to go, and keygens have died down because these cracker groups are unable to find any way to get real keys, but they still pop up with systems with some sort of error in the code that gives out the private key or it not having any encryption at all, which there are still many because people don’t know much about encryption and still want to stick with an outdated system

FB doesn't do anything when you report the groups....

Classic FB (and other piracy sites), unless a dmca takedown is issued, they’ll just sit around

[Casmat]

I also suggest taking a look at this which definitely helps consolidate everything into a nice blog post:

How to Generate Secure License Keys in 2025

Software vendors should move away from legacy license key algorithms such as partial key verification to generating secure license keys using modern algorithms like elliptic-curve and RSA cryptography.

Keygen (keygen.sh)

[orange]

@Casmat said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

@d-healey yup haha, I had seen the same thing, the thing with keygens is that everyone’s starting to realize that using encryption is the way to go, and keygens have died down because these cracker groups are unable to find any way to get real keys

No, the keygens definitely didn't die.

I guess you haven't seen industry-leading plugin manufacturers that have been hacked even though they used cutting-edge encryption methods ​​in the market.

The logic of keygens is not just finding existing keys. It can also solve Key's mathematical formula. Or a fake little server like app can cheat the plugin via The HTTP 200 OK success status response. Then it generates keys upon the method. In this case, it makes no sense whether to encrypt the key.

In my experience, if the licensing system used by the plugin is not obfuscated, it will definitely be cracked, regardless of whether the encryption is 2048. Because the hackers can see the source code very clearly, I guarantee it :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

[Lindon]

@orange said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

In my experience, if the licensing system used by the plugin is not obfuscated, it will definitely be cracked, regardless of whether the encryption is 2048. Because the hackers can see the source code very clearly, I guarantee it :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Yeah thats possibly another thing we need to think about - how do we obfuscate the HSIE script source code...

[d.healey]

@Lindon you can't without encrypting it because anyone can just look at the code and make a deobfuscator. Security through obscurity is a last resort.

I take the approach that anything on the client side is already compromised so all my 'security' stuff is server side.

[Lindon]

@d-healey said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

@Lindon you can't without encrypting it because anyone can just look at the code and make a deobfuscator. Security through obscurity is a last resort.

true. I bet you users love your "must have an internet connection" tho....

[d.healey]

@Lindon They only need a connection to download the instrument, once they have the files they can use them offline, on any machine - remember all my stuff is open source so I don't have the same piracy paranoia as everyone else

[Dan Korneff]

@Lindon said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

I bet you users love your "must have an internet connection" tho....

I just released a plugin that currently supports online activation only. 35K active activations so far. 7 complaints.
I do plan on offering offline activation soon, but this doesn't appear to be huge issue like or was years ago.

[Lindon]

@Dan-Korneff said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

@Lindon said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

I bet you users love your "must have an internet connection" tho....

I just released a plugin that currently supports online activation only. 35K active activations so far. 7 complaints.
I do plan on offering offline activation soon, but this doesn't appear to be huge issue like or was years ago.

Good to know Dan, thanks...

[d.healey]

@Dan-Korneff said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

35K active activations so far

You should make a video tutorial about your marketing strategy

[Casmat]

@orange ahh I didn’t think of that possibility, is obfuscation the only way to avoid this or what are some other methods you’ve used to avoid this?

And btw, your licensing system is amazing, we’re definitely planning on making something like it in the future:
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/4967/woocommerce-linked-licensing-system-for-your-plugins/2?_=1705339675044
What is the licensing app built on?

[Dan Korneff]

@d-healey said in Different Encryption Types in HISE?:

You should make a video tutorial about your marketing strategy

As with any good marking plan, it all started with day drinking.....