HISE Logo Forum
    • Categories
    • Register
    • Login

    What is a sensible number of samplers in a single plugin?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Questions
    33 Posts 6 Posters 1.5k Views
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • Christoph HartC
      Christoph Hart @Lindon
      last edited by

      128 samplers is definitely overkill - the sampler module is designed for the purpose of streaming large sample sets so if you throw only a single one shot at it you’re definitely wasting a lot of resources (mostly RAM, take a look at your task manager after you created 128 instances)…

      Loopers are a bit less resource-hungry but if you want to scale that with a good performance you should look into creating a custom sample player with scriptnode. I‘ve created a drum plugin with 36 individual channels like this and the performance is very close to the optimum (which would be handcoded c++).

      O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • O
        Orvillain @Christoph Hart
        last edited by

        @Christoph-Hart said in What is a sensible number of samplers in a single plugin?:

        128 samplers is definitely overkill - the sampler module is designed for the purpose of streaming large sample sets so if you throw only a single one shot at it you’re definitely wasting a lot of resources (mostly RAM, take a look at your task manager after you created 128 instances)…

        Loopers are a bit less resource-hungry but if you want to scale that with a good performance you should look into creating a custom sample player with scriptnode. I‘ve created a drum plugin with 36 individual channels like this and the performance is very close to the optimum (which would be handcoded c++).

        Nice one, cheers! I've not looked at script node yet, guess I'll start digging into that this week.

        O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • O
          Orvillain @Orvillain
          last edited by

          Hmmm, So 128 ScriptNode Synths... each of them with a "file player" inside, gives about 500mb of RAM. Which isn't too bad I don't think.

          Building my own node network for the kind of playback sampler I am looking for, seems viable.

          d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • d.healeyD
            d.healey @Orvillain
            last edited by

            @Orvillain that's a lot of RAM. Will users only load a single instance per project?

            Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
            My Patreon - HISE tutorials
            YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

            O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • O
              Orvillain @d.healey
              last edited by

              @d-healey said in What is a sensible number of samplers in a single plugin?:

              @Orvillain that's a lot of RAM. Will users only load a single instance per project?

              Well here an empty Groove Agent SE5 is coming in around 300mb by itself. I'd like to get that number down, sure. But 500mb is way more acceptable than the 3.2gb required to do this with the HISE Sampler.

              d.healeyD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • d.healeyD
                d.healey @Orvillain
                last edited by

                @Orvillain yeah 300 is pretty chunky too. Do you really need 128?

                Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • O
                  Orvillain @d.healey
                  last edited by

                  @d-healey

                  16 pads x 8 layers.

                  I noticed one thing though. If I put 8 file players in a single ScriptNode instance (rather than having 128 ScriptNode instances), then that seems to bring down the memory. Still doing more testing, but 128 file_player nodes, is showing the entire HISE memory footprint of 105mb. Which is a marked improvement!

                  I just need to see if I can get the functionality from the HISE file_player. For instance, right now I cannot see a way to stop it from looping.

                  Promising stuff though.

                  O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • O
                    Orvillain @Orvillain
                    last edited by

                    @Christoph-Hart

                    How can I tell a specific instance of a file_player within a ScriptNode, to load a file from an absolute path??

                    More to the point - how can I iterate through properties and functions for the ScriptNode instance, from my Interface onInit method?

                    Christoph HartC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Christoph HartC
                      Christoph Hart @Orvillain
                      last edited by

                      @Orvillain it depends on the type of property. Parameter sliders need to be connected to a container meta parameter and can then be accessed through the usual HISE attribute system.

                      Any complex data (table, slider packs, audio files) need to be registered as external data slot and then can be modified using the scripting API (just like you would load a file into the inbuilt loop player.

                      gives about 500mb of RAM

                      This is way too much but you should be able to bring this down by lowering the voice limit. If you have 128 instances, you don't need 256 voice polyphony so with 16 voices per sampler you can cut it down significantly.

                      O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • O
                        Orvillain @Christoph Hart
                        last edited by

                        @Christoph-Hart

                        The way I'm thinking is I somehow need to travese down this tree:
                        container.chain.softbypass_switch9.sb_container.sb1.file_player

                        And that would allow me to do something like:

                        abs_path = FileSystem.fromAbsolutePath(file_obj.fileName);
                        parsed = [this_sampler.parseSampleFile(abs_path)];
                        file_player.loadSampleMapFromJSON(parsed);
                        

                        Or whatever the call is to load a file into the file_player.
                        Sort of pseudo code, similar to what I've been doing with the SAMPLER, but hope it makes sense.

                        If I do this:

                        const var ScriptnodeSynthesiser1 = Synth.getChildSynth("Scriptnode Synthesiser1");
                        const attr_count = ScriptnodeSynthesiser1.getNumAttributes();
                        
                        
                        for (i = 0; i < attr_count; i++)
                        {
                        	var attr = ScriptnodeSynthesiser1.getAttributeId(i);
                        	Console.print(attr);
                        }
                        

                        Then I just get these printed in the Console:
                        Interface: Gain
                        Interface: Balance
                        Interface: VoiceLimit
                        Interface: KillFadeTime
                        Interface: Sample Select

                        Sample Select is a custom meta parameter. So I'd already figured that bit out. Really what I'm looking to get is an object reference to the internal nodes within the ScriptNode.

                        8296692d-1be7-44a1-a253-eb3650b5b99e-image.png

                        This is where I'm currently at. You can see Sample Select at the top. You can also see that my file_player nodes are all set to an external audio file slot.

                        If you could help me get the object reference I'm looking for, I'm pretty sure I can figure the rest out from there. Does it have anything to do with ScriptnodeSynthesiser1.ScriptParameters; ?

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • d.healeyD
                          d.healey
                          last edited by

                          Are you using the clone container? That might reduce some of the complexity

                          Libre Wave - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
                          My Patreon - HISE tutorials
                          YouTube Channel - Public HISE tutorials

                          O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • O
                            Orvillain @d.healey
                            last edited by Orvillain

                            @d-healey Not yet. It isn't really what I'm after right now. I'm just trying to make sure I understand how to iterate through the node tree, get and set data within it, and then I'll look at optimization and stuff later.

                            I'm just trying to sus out how to achieve this before I invest too much time in it really.

                            PS: Been rinsing your HISE videos on Youtube. I'm half way through the paint routines one, and have learnt a lot! Thanks very much!

                            O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • O
                              Orvillain @Orvillain
                              last edited by Orvillain

                              @Orvillain

                              Ahhhh.. I imagine I need to use Engine.getDspNetworkReference(String processorId, String id)
                              in order to access the actual node network? I'll try that tomorrow.

                              And obviousy then, I finally check the docs 🐶

                              Link Preview Image
                              HISE | Docs

                              favicon

                              (docs.hise.audio)

                              I'll give this a thorough read tomorrow too. Looks like this is what I want.

                              O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • O
                                Orvillain @Orvillain
                                last edited by Orvillain

                                @Christoph-Hart
                                Could you let me know what I'm doing wrong here?

                                var samplepath = "D:\Samples\Drums\Hits\Reverb Drum Machines\MXR Drum Computer\Reverb MXR Drum Computer Sample Pack_Audio Files\Reverb MXR Drum Computer Sample Pack_CHH.wav";
                                
                                const var s = Synth.getAudioSampleProcessor("Scriptnode Synthesiser1");
                                const slot = s.getAudioFile(0);
                                slot.loadFile("{XYZ::SingleSample}" + samplepath);
                                

                                I do actually see a change:
                                1997ebb2-d818-4d39-9412-2c84db0465f7-image.png

                                But it hasn't actually loaded it. Just applied a label.

                                If I do this:

                                var samplepath = "D:\Samples\Drums\Hits\Reverb Drum Machines\MXR Drum Computer\Reverb MXR Drum Computer Sample Pack_Audio Files\Reverb MXR Drum Computer Sample Pack_CHH.wav";
                                
                                const var s = Synth.getAudioSampleProcessor("Scriptnode Synthesiser1");
                                const slot = s.getAudioFile(0);
                                slot.loadFile(samplepath);
                                

                                Then HISE just crashes.

                                And if I do this:

                                const var samplepath = "D:\Samples\Drums\Hits\Reverb Drum Machines\MXR Drum Computer\Reverb MXR Drum Computer Sample Pack_Audio Files\Reverb MXR Drum Computer Sample Pack_CHH.wav";
                                var abs_path = FileSystem.fromAbsolutePath(samplepath);
                                
                                var s = Synth.getAudioSampleProcessor("Scriptnode Synthesiser1");
                                const slot = s.getAudioFile(0);
                                slot.loadFile(abs_path);
                                ;
                                

                                Then I get this:
                                2f8dddfe-5019-43bf-98eb-f458d59224e4-image.png

                                Again, it doesn't load the file... but does put an object reference in the filename box.

                                O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • O
                                  Orvillain @Orvillain
                                  last edited by

                                  Bah! Figured it out:
                                  c39aab47-627f-4854-8fdf-a4c927dda560-image.png

                                  You can see.. the filepath needed the backslashes escaping. I have to do this when using Python all the time, and it just occurred to me to try it in HISE too.

                                  Works fine. Sample loads. I've got enough to go on now!

                                  O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • O
                                    Orvillain @Orvillain
                                    last edited by

                                    Actually @Christoph-Hart if you do see this, how can I disable looping on the file_player object?

                                    O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • O
                                      Orvillain @Orvillain
                                      last edited by

                                      @Orvillain Just a note to self, looking through the source code I suspect there might be a setUseLoop bool on the sample itself. I'll look for that tomorrow. It could also be LoopEnabled, as that is listed under special parameters for the AudioLooper class.

                                      I'm sorta hoping those follow through to the file_player.

                                      O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • O
                                        Orvillain @Orvillain
                                        last edited by

                                        @Orvillain said in What is a sensible number of samplers in a single plugin?:

                                        @Orvillain Just a note to self, looking through the source code I suspect there might be a setUseLoop bool on the sample itself. I'll look for that tomorrow. It could also be LoopEnabled, as that is listed under special parameters for the AudioLooper class.

                                        I'm sorta hoping those follow through to the file_player.

                                        @Christoph-Hart

                                        So I tried these in a small demo project, but it doesn't seem to work.

                                        Here's the snippet - would love it if someone could help me disable loop for the file_player node. Do I have to get the node itself perhaps???

                                        HiseSnippet 3131.3oc6ZusaaibGGGmz1zw1Ma1CMnmtRHnW3.j0PRVVxdKJZb7gFiM1QvJMnWX.AZpQ1DlhTKIkOzh9N1K6iQeCZmgjRhTQ1xV0ITK52r.aBOM7OImeCoH+T22yRDD34qou7GtoqPS+oFMtwM77cN2z1U6fc0zetQfkuc2PWuVhuOvrSWGgu1atoqYPfnklt97+Y0Zpu7BZQ+4e+mdioioqkX3rzz9nmsk3c1crCGN25u9Gscb12rk3C1cRs1Ud8AVdt63430SVUyaTTqqo0ElmINxTsZyYnou3dsrC87aDZFJBzzW3Mdstow4dW4Fu9ezNv9TGgZhRZMjMT7r22yokphUyUamyscZUu+Qefl73r9vyEyGet34FGZ2xdv7GdN4ahVPggaQ5yG5yks7lOS4UJc4ULU4MlRROUIYDWReqQinqFCWhpd9EFG3FJ7aaJOsmtTNpWms60x1aeaGUkXnqKOAG2.Zys1bF63I2L2v05XdgXee4DCZlUqVr3qJH+eu7OrRgUjWPBBKbooegFC5KD0MQDXGH7KU3OVHZx0NSDFcXDM0puX3ZWH8p+BYilpMi6T00L7bY67hc+gSNoQzbBN4jc860Q9Wu0NLYhBGZZctsq3jSdiWPPgcO96qVsnbQQ+8OZacQ40W6JyKegbGnZZySCZlzvpyAMtIHTzYs19dc19z.Omdgh5xkt5vJ3kIaXP5Conygw0zfy62mCt.GuPY6DLnMT0vppSopkrlimYqn4jd22tmqUnsmaAO2i7BEu2c0WtxeekkW4erRgQWT61icYpKp9dNxX5XWrJs4eWa3pt85bpv+UxqMN8DCVQYNKa+Ziauec5XmUberTqnm6At1guuqv81BiZIcLk+q+xA6ZFZpBCIyStdcE9g1pRPeWwkxQVhiFKarqH3hPutxwVFlaVHdgxDqWqdNlgYiwpwtRVf7bPlriJJ3FXGdS5w1dzx122R7aMpaGZc93qw4FSMJOS84nFSFQ7qL1qcagU3vBbAi8+qedF9K8tek9693PWTdKZ2+aMtkX3cbKp+488VTcu22h5SFncogCzp+JiGRJ6Nu4Voo7laKNycyseFjQyb+2k6WiMrUCVum6kBG4.QQ032IG4osYOmv9yMauuC8b85dtmqsU5NbGKB8sO6Lge5ZerGPaGFJeBngy44u9XgivLHUOxe+qem7lhl9xySho7bQo6+4h6550uwHtbKnhLE946Xqy++MisdWmhVxXuqC8MKMCd0KozJ+krzN1qWns6YGZJitWKGlWNreC48.rDxxx0U3DMz+bpmeId5hpoUEQCgaqnI9Ox+jrvRCdfb4BK0egodzmiDgW44eQT5K4eqo+j3AbZtYy2YdivuYijeQ11NNdWU2y4l9izDcjI7CT8q0ehQw0j+W7ZsiWmt1I83kmyhmr+gv1c75I26IGGu0L3Cl1Npm0nQu.4Sr058tMjqbzMOk8G0OJZ.mE22zRdB9F0CSqxUpm4SdcR3ul0fqWiolGdkK5Lu7JRcSe4uxS9aPBhO.TMe+6yFelTVscTmdh9gfyqVd74m35H4Gr50N7zn1tYvUpH9VZSn.G29Na0ceqj4hqDCUkrhQ7tWdnlY++MQ6e4CAr10skObg+crqdpQkxaVYqZEqVYqQ1iodPX4bRlR1weN0t9qU8MScD8Q0SYnZ9MiBXoW0EMhtqQxZrjQinZV1sL5u+fou7Wun1EKkdFIOPtqH5wZBxNYxYgCjGOFFAmVRaPgnl0JFCNb0l1lr7ieSt9ieSV4wuI23wuIq932j0d7axMu8lLU2b0yozeJ4sONz1MoasgZ.PsCMudvzkjSq59+Di3YscuPuNxaPz+gnSkielb+2bvPFSZrjaM9lMkeGgY8QRnO03ffOpVpkoyvjbw3ZLJZlpXiSbYpwecpZTM1Xy3AGmtJcjgbi1mekQa4MEZ10QM7d1882I229h0Ru7G1.qpaO4Htt+aAH0OyJ8TZp682RbcbaN75dzTCupq+udq1HcXVHUGFi6pCSY4zMBEcaX+2xzA5YF0kGWmJel2ziiFu8Z22Fuzsz3KJ+4OgoZzRizno5hunQ4rs5RxYTrXRC80FG64Etuu3m5Iu68M8awmXToxCpPydV3WoVdwsh+SsZUqrY4M1rbx6jTsyNV8XFiV9o5qqMg6h0nirpOW9LWQ+B7j1YA4A1mbarwERjOCS5q0ZiDSJ+ENl7rzwjR4dNozslShFbgTBoj3GLJGSIky8TRYRIjRlbJoRdlRVO2SIqSJgTxjSIajmojJ4dJoBoDRISNkTMOSIaj6ojMHkPJYxojZ4YJoZtmRpRJgTxjSIalmojZ4dJoFoDRIiIkbqSj4CHcmG+0tkKTC9Bpi7EkteeqqTey3Levq9elJsG7WJZjC8regrjysQeP9BMDNx5QaR8NyLw86nZreS9LGeC+tySyA3+qJQev9BKiuP7Ela9BKiuP7EhuP7EhuP7EhuP7EhuP7Ehuvb2WHuSIdyqnKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzERJAcgnKjTB5BQWHoDzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BQW33zEtN5BQWXtoKbczEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPdmRnKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzERJAcgnKjTBoDzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzENSpKrB5BQWXtoKrB5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWHuSIzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzERJgTB5BQWHoDzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BmI0EtA5BQWXtoKbCzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPdmRnKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzERJAcgnKjTBoDzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzENSpKrJ5BQWXtoKrJ5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWHuSIzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzERJgTB5BQWHoDzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BmI0EVCcgnKL2zEVCcgnKDcgnKDcgnKDcgnKDcgnKDcgnKj2oD5BQWHoDzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BIkPJAcgnKjTB5BQWHoDzEhtPRInKDcgyj5B2DcgnKL2zEtI5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWH5BQWHuSIzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzERJgTB5BQWHoDzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BmI0EtE5BQWXtoKbKzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPzEhtPdmRnKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzERJAcgnKjTBoDzEhtPRInKDcgjRPWH5BIkftPzElq5B+c2htvREgWH7B+RwK7WNJuvQ59guP7EhuP7EhuP7EhuP7EhuP7EhuP7ExaUBeg3KjTB9BwWHoD7EhuPRI3KDegjRvWH9BIkPJAeg3KjTB9BwWHoD7EhuvYFegkvWH9ByOegkvWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9B4sJguP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwWHoD7EhuPRIjRvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwW3rouvx3KDeg4muvx3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg7VkvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwWHoDRI3KDegjRvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3Kb1zW353KDeg4muv0wWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9B4sJguP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwWHoD7EhuPRIjRvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwW3rouvJ3KDeg4muvJ3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg7VkvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwWHoDRI3KDegjRvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3Kb1zW3F3KDeg4muvMvWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9BwWH9B4sJguP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwWHoD7EhuPRIjRvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwW3rouvp3KDeg4muvp3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg3KDeg7VkvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3KjTB9BwWHoDRI3KDegjRvWH9BIkfuP7ERJAeg3K7yluvuDVN5XZ460L4i8G8g5hlirGgqYjnPiCUSWnj1kwGLCkF0wtkcSKqrM0mrgkm1Mb8ocCqLsa3FS6FVcZ2vZS6Ft4j2PkQxjDtputl1g02KpSnt9dtlm5DyQR6+5xVsVK
                                        
                                        O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • O
                                          Orvillain @Orvillain
                                          last edited by

                                          Content.makeFrontInterface(600, 600);
                                           
                                          const var ScriptnodeSynthesiser1 = Synth.getChildSynth("Scriptnode Synthesiser1");
                                          
                                          const var samplepath = "D:\\Samples\\Drums\\Hits\\Drum Machine\\Boss DR-660\\DR-660Kick23.wav";
                                          
                                          var abs_path = FileSystem.fromAbsolutePath(samplepath);
                                          
                                          var s = Synth.getAudioSampleProcessor("Scriptnode Synthesiser1");
                                          
                                          const slot = s.getAudioFile(0);
                                          slot.loadFile(samplepath);
                                          
                                          var the_network = Engine.getDspNetworkReference("Scriptnode Synthesiser1", "_8_Layer_Sampler");
                                          
                                          var fileplayer = the_network.get("file_player");
                                          
                                          fileplayer.LoopEnabled(false);
                                          

                                          This doesn't work either - getting the node directly.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • First post
                                            Last post

                                          28

                                          Online

                                          1.7k

                                          Users

                                          11.8k

                                          Topics

                                          102.8k

                                          Posts