Global pitch modulator problem

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart ~~Well I can't see any immediate problems with the idea~~ :)

Would I still need a compensation hack to prevent the ducking? I'm thinking my vibrato is suddenly going to sound quieter than my sustain, unless I use two LFOs but again that negates the advantage of global LFOs. Could add the bipolar/unipolar thing to the target rather than the origin?

Christoph Hart

@d-healey said in Global pitch modulator problem:

Could add the bipolar/unipolar thing to the target rather than the origin?

No, that's the entire problem. The LFO has to behave differently depending on whether it should be bipolar or not, thus the entire brainfuck.

Would I still need a compensation hack to prevent the ducking?

Add a simple gain with +6dB. Done.

BTW, I've just committed everything, so you can check it for yourself if it works like you need it.

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart said in Global pitch modulator problem:

Add a simple gain with +6dB. Done.
BTW, I've just committed everything, so you can check it for yourself if it works like you need it.

Thank you I'll take a look now. The simple gain will also boost regardless of the LFO intensity.

Christoph Hart

@d-healey And the LFO will duck it regardless the LFO intensity so you're fine :)

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart Aha that's good :)

d.healey

Getting a few build errors - to do with the scriptnode additions I think

../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/nodes/HiseNodes.h:152:24: error: ‘extra_mod’ does not name a type
  152 |   DEF_PARAMETER(Index, extra_mod);
      |                        ^~~~~~~~~
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/../hi_dsp_library/node_api/helpers/node_macros.h:51:112: note: in definition of macro ‘DEF_PARAMETER’
   51 | #define DEF_PARAMETER(ParameterName, ClassName) if constexpr (P == (int)Parameters::ParameterName) static_cast<ClassName*>(obj)->set##ParameterName(value);
      |                                                                                                                ^~~~~~~~~
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/../hi_dsp_library/node_api/helpers/node_macros.h:51:121: error: expected ‘>’ before ‘*’ token
   51 | #define DEF_PARAMETER(ParameterName, ClassName) if constexpr (P == (int)Parameters::ParameterName) static_cast<ClassName*>(obj)->set##ParameterName(value);
      |                                                                                                                         ^
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/nodes/HiseNodes.h:152:3: note: in expansion of macro ‘DEF_PARAMETER’
  152 |   DEF_PARAMETER(Index, extra_mod);
      |   ^~~~~~~~~~~~~
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/../hi_dsp_library/node_api/helpers/node_macros.h:51:121: error: expected ‘(’ before ‘*’ token
   51 | #define DEF_PARAMETER(ParameterName, ClassName) if constexpr (P == (int)Parameters::ParameterName) static_cast<ClassName*>(obj)->set##ParameterName(value);
      |                                                                                                                         ^
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/nodes/HiseNodes.h:152:3: note: in expansion of macro ‘DEF_PARAMETER’
  152 |   DEF_PARAMETER(Index, extra_mod);
      |   ^~~~~~~~~~~~~
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/../hi_dsp_library/node_api/helpers/node_macros.h:51:122: error: expected primary-expression before ‘>’ token
   51 | #define DEF_PARAMETER(ParameterName, ClassName) if constexpr (P == (int)Parameters::ParameterName) static_cast<ClassName*>(obj)->set##ParameterName(value);
      |                                                                                                                          ^
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/nodes/HiseNodes.h:152:3: note: in expansion of macro ‘DEF_PARAMETER’
  152 |   DEF_PARAMETER(Index, extra_mod);
      |   ^~~~~~~~~~~~~
In file included from ../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/../hi_dsp_library/hi_dsp_library.h:111,
                 from ../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/hi_dsp.h:56,
                 from ../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/hi_components.h:57,
                 from ../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/hi_sampler.h:54,
                 from ../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/hi_scripting.h:80,
                 from ../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/hi_modules.h:57,
                 from ../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/hi_backend.h:55,
                 from ../../Source/../JuceLibraryCode/JuceHeader.h:17,
                 from ../../Source/MainComponent.h:12,
                 from ../../Source/MainComponent.cpp:12:
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/../hi_dsp_library/node_api/helpers/node_macros.h:51:128: error: invalid use of ‘void’
   51 | #define DEF_PARAMETER(ParameterName, ClassName) if constexpr (P == (int)Parameters::ParameterName) static_cast<ClassName*>(obj)->set##ParameterName(value);
      |                                                                                                                                ^~
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/../hi_dsp_library/node_api/helpers/node_macros.h:51:128: note: in definition of macro ‘DEF_PARAMETER’
   51 | #define DEF_PARAMETER(ParameterName, ClassName) if constexpr (P == (int)Parameters::ParameterName) static_cast<ClassName*>(obj)->set##ParameterName(value);
      |                                                                                                                                ^~
../../../../../HISE/hi_backend/../hi_modules/../hi_scripting/../hi_sampler/../hi_components/../hi_dsp/../hi_dsp_library/node_api/helpers/node_macros.h:51:130: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘setIndex’
   51 | #define DEF_PARAMETER(ParameterName, ClassName) if constexpr (P == (int)Parameters::ParameterName) static_cast<ClassName*>(obj)->set##ParameterName(value);

Christoph Hart

oops, try again, it should work now.

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart Yep that fixed it.

When the LFO is set to bipolar the intensity slider doesn't appear to do anything.

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Christoph Hart

Yes thats the idea...

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart Oh, well when it's set to unipolar, if I pull the intensity to 0 the pitch goes to the max

Christoph Hart

Set it to bipolar, add a MIDI CC to the intensity modulation.

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart That works, I understand why, but it works :) Now if I set the pitch modulator to unipolar and pull the CC down to 0 the pitch is left at + 1/2 of the set pitch value.

Christoph Hart

@d-healey said in Global pitch modulator problem:

Now if I set the pitch modulator to unipolar

Then don't :)

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart lol but what if I want unidirectional pitch modulation? It's just occured to me also that it will require one simple gain per mic position to counteract the ducking, I might use a scriptFX instead.

And now I've realised the +6 simple gain would only work if I leave the gain mod intensity at its max of 1, but if I adjust this I'd have to figure out a new settings for the simple gain to counteract it. I don't think we've reached a perfect solution yet but it's very close.

Christoph Hart

@d-healey said in Global pitch modulator problem:

lol but what if I want unidirectional pitch modulation?

why?

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart I don't have a particular use case, I'm just thinking to the future. I actually think this won't be an issue though because you can use a bipolar mod and adjust the table to get the same effect as unipolar with the centre position at 0.

d.healey

I'm finding other problems with sharing the LFO with gain. Using the simple gain I can offset the gain when the intensity is 0, but as the intensity is increased I now get an undersirable gain boost from the LFO. Is there a way I could set the maximum upper gain?

I think the same issue is going to occur with xfade, I don't see a way to counteract this as there is no equivelant of the simple gain solution. A constant mod might be a solution if the value could be inverted, but I think we're getting into hacky territory again.

crd

@Christoph-Hart

This is change is working really well for me. I haven't tested it as thoroughly as I need but it seems to fix any issues I was having with the modulation system. Thank you. It feels like Christmas. But.... How do I change the amount of a global modulator going to a pitch modulation target?

Here is an example:
a global LFO Bipolar is being sent to Pitch, Filter Cutoff, and the gain of a sinewav generator. I can change the amount of modulation for the gain and the filter cutoff, but I can only change the amount of pitch being modulated in the pitch mod not the amount of modulation being sent to the pitch. The only way to change the amount of modulation being sent to pitch right now is to change the LFO intensity being sent to all three destinations.

I could work around this by just not sharing global LFO's between pitch and other modulators. In any case this last update makes the modulation system a million times more useful for my use case. Thank you!!!!!

d.healey

After playing around with this some more I think the improvements made to pitch modulation from a global LFO are excellent!

The changes to gain, xfade, and the like, though are a step backwards. With the new system there are hacks required for non-pitch modulators as there were for pitch modulators with the old system. The simplest workaround now is to use separate LFOs for pitch but that again negates one of the purposes of the global LFO.

d.healey

So I went with the option of using separate mods for pitch and gain. Now my problem is that the bipolar and unipolar mods are inverted from one another.

@Christoph-Hart Any suggestions? Currently I'm inverting the target pitch mod but I wondered if there is a way to get the origin to be in sync.

Peek 2021-11-08 17-26.gif

Global pitch modulator problem

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