Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise

[YOKAN]

Hi everyone,
​I'm moving forward with my "Virtual Drum Kit" project (a raw, modern metal drum VST). We have established a roadmap to build a solid MVP.
​Before I lock down the recording process and the HISE scripting architecture, I would love to get your "sanity check" or best practices on four specific strategic decisions we've made. My ultimate goal with these inquiries is to finalize a professional Scope Statement to guide our production.
​1. The "Hybrid IR" Approach (Room Mics)
To save resources and simplify phase management, I am planning to record the kit very dry/direct, and strictly simulate the overheads/room sound using custom Impulse Responses (IRs) triggered via a Convolution Reverb on a Send bus.
​The Goal: Cleaner mix, lower file count.
​The Question: For a high-end Metal sound, do you think this approach is convincing enough compared to real multichannel samples? Has anyone successfully released a commercial acoustic drum kit using this "Direct + IR" method in HISE?
​2. Routing & Multi-Out Strategy
I am aiming for a flexible routing system. The plan is to offer 19+ outputs to the DAW via aux or inserts.
​Configuration: I need a mix of Mono outputs (for Kick, Snare, Toms, Spot Mics) and Stereo outputs (for the Room/Reverb return).
​The Question: What is the standard/most stable way to handle a mix of Mono and Stereo outputs in HISE? Should I set the plugin to 32 channels (16 stereo pairs) and hard-pan the mono elements internally, or does HISE support true mono channel routing to the DAW easily?
​3. Velocity & Round Robins
We are aiming for 24 Round Robins per velocity layer to avoid the "machine gun" effect on fast rolls. Regarding velocity, do you think that steps of 20 (e.g., 0, 20, 40...) provide enough resolution for natural transitions?
​The Question: Are there any specific performance pitfalls (RAM/CPU) I should be aware of with such a high RR count in HISE? Is using Sampler.setAttribute(Sampler.RRGroupAmount, 24) sufficient, or should I look into custom script handling for better performance?
​4. Cymbal Swell & Repetition
When a drummer hits a cymbal once, the sample start and end are straightforward. However, in real life, when a drummer continues to hit the same cymbal, the sound changes due to the cymbal's movement (wash).
​The Question: Do you have any ideas on how to manage this build-up without losing too much stick attack on subsequent hits?
​Thanks a lot for your insights. I want to make sure the foundation is solid before we start the recording sessions and development.

[Christoph Hart]

@YOKAN I'm no metal guy, but omitting overheads / room mics sounds like a weird compromise. You might get away with simulating room mics with an IR, but the overheads will give you the stereo information you'll need for a halfway realistic drumkit.

[David Healey]

@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:

I would love to get your "sanity check"

Have you built large projects like this before with other platforms?

[YOKAN]

@Christoph-Hart thanks a lot for this precision.
I don't really know how to manage samples for room or for OH.... What to do when many elements are played in the same time e.g snare + kick + hihat => ??? OH

My idea is to get direct track compare to OH track and deconvolver. In my mind this should works. The main idea is to keep the possibility to change the studio room later maybe using some sweep or white noise (not for this plugin version at all).

I don't know deeply Hise, that's why I asked before starting anything.

[YOKAN]

@David-Healey I'm Web app developer and metal producer.
I just know, step by step, how to build a project 'agile' way. And all projects must wait for a solid roadmap before starting anything.
I know UI and UX design, CSS and Javascript that's why Hise sounds good to me.

[Christoph Hart]

@YOKAN you can use multisamples in HISE, that's precisely what this system is made for.

A kick sample will then consist of two or three separate files. You'll route the close mics to individual channels and OH / room channels to the same channel output for each drum, then they'll add up as a OH / room channel.

[YOKAN]

@Christoph-Hart OK perfect, I will try this. Thanks a lot.

[Lindon]

@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:

Velocity & Round Robins
We are aiming for 24 Round Robins per velocity layer to avoid the "machine gun" effect on fast rolls. Regarding velocity, do you think that steps of 20 (e.g., 0, 20, 40...) provide enough resolution for natural transitions?
​The Question: Are there any specific performance pitfalls (RAM/CPU) I should be aware of with such a high RR count in HISE? Is using Sampler.setAttribute(Sampler.RRGroupAmount, 24) sufficient, or should I look into custom script handling for better performance?

This seems like over kill for RRs - especially if you add some sort of scripted humanisation of each note, so gain, pitch and timing.

I've built a few DRUM Rompers e.g. https://www.drum-drops.com/products/mapex-heavy-rock-kit-kontakt-pack?_pos=2&_sid=f372c5dee&_ss=r

and we never went anywhere near this number of RRs...

[David Healey]

@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:

I'm Web app developer and metal producer.

In that case I would say, don't do it... yet

Build some smaller, simpler projects first so you get a good feel for HISE. You'll discover workflows you didn't consider, and find issues you need to workaround.

Once you've done this you'll find making your larger project is a much easier and smoother process.

I know you'll probably ignore this advice but ye be warned

[YOKAN]

https://youtu.be/r5sgCYr0cdc?si=cX5IC--VsQyL83yq

Here he said 10 velocity and 10 samples by velocity. Maybe this should be enough for all elements except for kick where I really think that 24 should be the minimum to avoid similar sounds in a big amount of kick.

David, thanks you so much for your advice.
Like I said, a already follow you videos and make some plugin for testing some concept.

In this case I don't know where are the difficulties ?
I just talk to the community to get the best advices possible for this small project.

This is my only one and simple kit :
const var MidiMap = {
// KICKS
"KickSlow": 36,
"KickFastL": 37,
"KickFastR": 38,

// SNARES
"SnareHit": 39, // Rimshot
"SnareGhost": 40,

// HATS
"HatClosed": 41,
"HatSemi": 42,
"HatOpen": 43,
"HatPedal": 44,

// TOMS
"Tom4": 45,
"Tom3": 46,
"Tom2": 47,
"Tom1": 48,

// CYMBALS
"RideBow": 49,
"RideBell": 50,
"Crash1": 51,
"Crash2": 52,
"Crash3": 53,
"China1": 54,
"China2": 55,
"Splash1": 56,
"Splash2": 57

};

I will found some mistake on my way, pretty sure, but I already built a small 'one kick' plugin, I think that's should be OK. If not I will found some
Solutions.
I have worked on the ui design, the art work, the mood board, the logo, etc.

And this is an MVP version.

If you know where is the difficult part, please this why I ask here, so don't hesitate to tell me.

I am 40, I have build CRM and 3D web application, ARcore mobile application.... I know how to produce big amount of tasks need products. I'm not afraid.... For now!

[David Healey]

@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:

This is my only one and simple kit :
const var MidiMap = {
// KICKS
"KickSlow": 36,
"KickFastL": 37,
"KickFastR": 38,

If the indexes are sequential why not use an array instead of an object?

[YOKAN]

@David-Healey to me it's very uncomfortable to write midi and scroll up and down every time I need to search and element, so I decided to get compact range of key, but I'm not sure because a standard key map exist and maybe I'm completely wrong doing this 'compact', so this kind of objects seems to be easier to maintain in time or flexible if I need to go with small clusters of elements, or maybe in the future I will need to build a new drum kit for jazz or something else I don't really know, it's just a more readable way to make this...

Why do I feel that you're not answering me to help?

I'm not pretending that everything is simple, and I noticed that Hise JS is not exactly the vanilla js.... As I said I will work and I will find something hard to do.... But even if a build many small Plug-in before the same amount of mistake will come.

I just need to ask if some people already make the same kind of project and if yes, what I have to consider to not make a big mistake.

I'm just try to work the serious way.

I have tried Hise making Bass Fx Plug-in, I spend many time with scriptnodes, I have open a protools developer account to get the SDK, I have only one year and I want to produce something strong... Simple, small, easy to use but stable and user friendly.
I have to learn how to build an installer, how to customize everything, how to manage licenses. I will ask for some Ai helps. But first of all, ask the community because you are the brain of this beautiful tool.

I'm really sorry for my poor English, I hope that you will understand what I try to mean.

[David Healey]

@YOKAN said in Questions about Profesionnal Virtual Drums for metal with Hise:

I'm really sorry for my poor English, I hope that you will understand what I try to mean.

Your English is fine.

With the MIDI map the only problem I see is if you want to insert a new item, let's say Tom5: 44 you then have to renumber all of the others. If it was an array you could just insert the new value and the indexes would still all line up.