Custom Envelope?

Straticah

@griffinboy yeah i usually never use the adsr display because its more confusing for the user than just displaying 4 ADSR dials with no display.

It also looks a little bit outdated. (Massive from year 2006 had a simmilar envelope like HISE) - ADSR is no longer just for representation - all major DAWs support draggable ADSR curves with dots and handles to bend the splines. (images attached)

Good examples for adsr implementation imo are Serum, Vital, Bitwig, Fabfilter Twin

Morphoice

@Matt_SF that's cool but sadly not knob controllable either.

god I wish the oscillators would be drawable like that table control

Matt_SF

@Morphoice Actually you can. It looks ugly as hell but here's an example if you want a 'classic' envelope witha decay curve:

HiseSnippet 2734.3oc2Zs0aaibElTViuHmjMoMcaKPPAQ.JfytYEDkkugEEQIx1Yc6ZagHuY28klNlbjz.SxQgbji0Vr.4sVzW5q8WQQ+oTf9Gnu0W2+.EsmYFdYnLksrhiQZcBLDmYNm4b46bixsCYNjnHVngYkiFMfXXdKTmQA79s5ioAF6ssg4CPsFFwY9V6DbJwiMfX0wIjNfGvbIFOaz.bTDw0vzbtmKnvboxFxe9gm7LrGNvgjsjgwKYTGxWR8o7rUa272P871E6RNh5qc5FM2ygEzh4wFBR2bnZFCvNmf6QN.KNVIjwWfi5aX9IHW6F1c2zAu9l1Mp63TeyMpu0FNDb2tj0sWaiFa1sQWrSs5FlyuiKkyB6vwbRjgY4mwbG0oO6MApK3kzH5wdDwC1FcfaVs7tLOWgJJV0nUepma6DyVjggIpclQbNkQ79n8otzz0yLl2UtgUFE5FPyR4Eu4xId15hWMMwq.QxTSjJqDo6gTtsrcDxyxn8B3jPv7j2WpNqQo+xbnVL3DA7p93SH6FBOjRwJqWq1isfe8nOuREvWEwsNEGZcDFDxDvhs0uxRBnp1iv2m4NzCCZ3JOTdnTHk8CAVjwA0smrYJUShWpimgOyHPv1Jz.OZ.wp6v.GNkEXwBNIfc7S4b.NITtPl2JNL+Ar.PMeLH.dCIOpxuuxR4UjpQDNPTH83gbxJismhaID+4UVZRpPdtLwSo3mHfHimeOnKINCv.zJQjW4gY5yCej3Bh0pVXOuigEWo.MNuKKubn7MZ1Z4Bo.mYzfuMwAOp0vvSIWnQu.QQnRJQfQA0Evb1x+WaZsMYW8EYeNm.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.E1dye.X4HwG9alhdhOW6aPiiIVI8tIE8bGugvyq2BmnMs..QLR22es0h4zJh2C0lxc5WrLVp.YDx679PFiaL+1ncfoBb3YBXYztey6mtv0u96nt9kQcfNij8UIu7OV9r0WiOkX8bR.ITEEL4op96S6TUCl5opNzgCW+Qg3fnArnbLtCwmdD.nizW7qhfw.Hu9EBuo95sX3vB25GdxtfRVHMcv7ggRXwS8YCC34fAycQCqYOiCqU9Ctg09effcyRsO26I3iP4FAJNXe7rn5x39r.1f9r.pita9EDXXnd8fjiZRdgpSbwZst.SpLpVp4p+6+Py3AmDhw1IsaFeLsEmt9otB1O6o29cQ93eJJavOqOnyq+yPIV0OHD0EUh5OGMgIpieSVWPmGWmH0CF5KAahwxLKIxyodcJlOFcUlvCcMA+xley3.B+MrvSjuin3OCs1ILN2AsqG4rzv4m54wdineFZreUdKxUay7FkXcjxAILRdhEP0pB+yPQFA.KAADujL6JKwWfiNBS8DE+6LLBF5z8vfNvgkkzfrplGHa.cgcwNfpOpMVzD18PhwVAnGIrpSJDbLINyAJANfcpMND6S3f3oDT0KNbLxD2WR4PjopPluurGNH0g4bh8UlKUmwha9VHni4WcrGy4jyLxIoerljpcl7xlRNxwjKSJzFASkMQ7Df4JodIdOSvEYe9uTMNWYzp0kAH5m6Vn8hdofKNXujCBNkDMbNMMbAUl77J2OQpb.hspiXyWI6+sPcKg7KQsJmk23HbXOBOJdpy.hiBzURvAQC5HD100H0iJVZAjRGj3MvklL0ZbnWxmDJeRO50L1AB0bgFDT0AHnMpWTcfs2p8y8Zsdxyc+1sNk+002L441ms0oL6iR2u8u9Sy8bbcjX9YXnADEua1jmDF.ZPri.IBdL1GeV5y1vyJegZomNjy7gTAIM2niILz7c2C8krdTGKbfq0S8FzGabIASE4AOOSl1.kRZhxsiqmYIM24Di6qIFvPmSVRxyioUJJWjT7Br+f7RwxfTDRpFJ1H+kmx16gdNgaEyAYyziIWRtdd45pftgloBGByAzmDXAPfoCmuMMZfGdzyf42iQV4VAdNF2WF8Y1iABmSCDN+jAgKhVqVMwRcReOB2GNhcM0O1M1pls85P0mSHuQYWU7XMCU9l1jPJyUZzNG58JFErL.HYCfZggbibadk4z7Pizbx3LYBASi6YJ.CmkPjb1fvIAi5ij7f2mXogar5RCh5ShrDHPZPuGaQ4V8nmBqHNYO1mg6SvtVbl7YQkKEcvBQBagkKCHCnRP.7opwnywk6BvmWbQk4QsDVgXqzOFsOnwU65wXgqPCFLj+nyUdYAz1jiG1KgDYuHEEBTpvPfEQPJffdjIh8Krnf+PuIPv6mbtZHiTANGj3tYPB0tS.N7ZzNdvD6A.usBICHbJG75pV.sTjFYEo75gjHBGjcnkQuQVBqnUbmnDWXs3iaA9EAFHxxAZKWac.pX+nDbQpTWDfX5SXUAkHT2nl+IEkpIN47F+nTuQ59Sve7KPos2OVj1wDGbrwS6Zd2LeKiR4ed6WbtoaBym9UjaG42d7T12XZCwR8oftMl5x74XwzVkWukUca5TViWcy5DdYMrdyWBdIjrZ6Gb0feW4ULR+BgnEDPoi5To+y4qqf7E0oDqOg.8lPkrSHVQCCIhZsPQzQQVXtLn+XROZPfndJLwJ0SuXMTmlJJTmjGUc2EjEnzMalu4QCH3SJDvK2XBVgGfZgGvE1.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

Edit: And this is a 'classic' custom envelope (sorry for the ugly quick code) :

HiseSnippet 3091.3oc2Zs0aabbEdIEGcgx1wtMIsEHHXgAJfbsBCWp6HnvThRxQMQRrlxN0uTmQ6Njbf1KL6NTVLsAnu09VesoO0eFsuYzeAEn+AxS847Gnn8LyrWlkZWwUxxBtk1Pf6Ly4Lem6mYV112yjDD34qUp5QiFPzJcKTmQtr9s5iotZ6ssVoOD0ZX.yyQe2g115srwAATS8cbOkX6ADr0nAvHDKsRkl5wbZJMWEMwmu+QagswtljjgzzdlG0j74TGJKYz1M+Lps8tXKxQTGkUuby8L8ba4Y6MDv2Tn5ZCvlmf6QN.yWVYj1mhC5qU5mgrLV1n65l3UW2X4FllMVesFarlIA2sKYUiUVa406tbWrY8FZkldGKJyyuCCyHAZkprkm0nN88doqbCdFMfdrMg+fgVGXmkCuqmsEWD4ip0pO01pcjhKPSqDpchZbJoZ7cQ6SsnwimnNuqXB8DJTUfkJmFdSkBdFpvqtB7x.RkTfTEIjtGpioOc.KYFNdlGsmKi3Cpmz1R4Z0JuzrnVdvJbY0bvmP10GdHlhEVsd8E0g+7fOoZUvVEvzOE6qeDF.YjGhg9OWW3RUqGgsum0PaLHgKbewhh8iLtOvhb3.PjJODyEKDSfQRwPgSxsOOPIWdLyzSHfy1pe7Gqu4QGsYqOS+n81empTWapKQu6PWSF0yU2y8DWui2jw.2TtRy2ydASOmAdtf5aQ.O1CIOn5uo5boUP0BHLfHe5wCYjEFaNI2hH9SpNWdRTZtj6pj7iGnkvyuADsHiLnOZEA4Eteh7b+Gv2fPopE119XXvExPhS6JjFGRS0EXKmr9e6cZs4ykp+jcgChsIl3Q.uyWPDqfym3GxWjDSqHQYapUWU1VZaOSrst4P+S4xcBM7A3P7Y7Ut.2tJWIWB1wsGrW7Y4IT2EaBx+td9.gziI1AKv4RGHmLLoBKR3gEeGDiBLS.E8OVuQc3Ss5myARXA35AooviBZKHl1XQE1rn9nEkxPnyRrcn0SexyxzPzJThmf0PrrTlDolYB1E9ZJnwQYoWjE5LUqihVMkl65vDUTs+YBktZDJnz67zNGs4dGLlBObitPsc3ZhT0QXKW8b3BlnRN85tdhAtD1h.41G4rOIyRNIQuPqf5VjDETLNzPvjb3v303Fibfv5h+ml75gdCvGESwAdLxgtKHT2U+lp5iOU2tYNWnYyl3m4z7pD9WDgK3Nz4XhupwluPnkiz8wfxuOF01rLktuJKzycOWJ6vAD27Z9RKzmG54Y1PTAaOSzwysC63QnU0nPeMyhDe2PS.X0FSsvLrnmRsXtLkjK2IjKcroVDeAatEJor2Xr5KOqYQ3vsEb3IDaBNfbdznUXQoQdhxJnkVsV7mMZA+4zC284qt1FtLq8VaDcquXzgvfcen34VdmVezgWhMdo713eJpwxxMUx3HHz8gwn4zCKjZ9tnzIKRsie2u7u9udTQ3x7IbYLH+m96WBaUXltTr3u7se668Jsmt21bAG5ZNzWD7OGP7YTtqeosImBG4Q1B9bnsIAmv7FHbVCSUpUZlI5tdl5ohFE+vuC2bPTrvdV7V7GqYXsWRsX8SH94M6Sn85yT4flBRlqXt74.mlCa5Psr3YvBn7LEIy7GaFvHC5P+Zh5ADcvIb5O7OaFLraWJLBBo6Dn43YAKdZj3PgECjoipR38q9s27nblIF3pnE+0WfQ8CP42U7X12uLXB12YmXPcBn9tu951SiwIYOWKxYQYySPVkhmEHAhMIp10utftxpIDxiW2L9HUKXNGEOE1jPYIwTMdkJJ+yeK+ye6QNp2OyyekJngOJf1ZqPPyyXIZdRS672nvcQwdhpWvAu2qvI3XR8VE32bfKf0Qp5tqsa8nnP7dn1TlY+rwX4LvHja+MAFCuqnai1oaWhIKAfUP69qdybwPpa+cja+7nNPSyhijK172W7r9Wfg10eLwk3Kyzj+E88OJ5E8MnvWz2glLX6OxG6FLvKHEi6PbnGAwOApC9z.xt9ju5Ibqo53s7v9YN02+ncAgLSZ5fYC8EtEa53MzkkxMXpK59CMth2eXk25t+v+GHXuT41m6xqeGTpCUEFrOdkJULtumq2f9dtTSUy7SHLeZudPtXEjmo3D1PjR2+QceHGp4R+6eeyv6biCisiNlQ3xTFrX8MeIzeFEW+cQ13eDJ4NC0eqNu9OFEoUeq.pyJg5OAkykwJv7E1c20om5ACcDNa7iiWpLOOm7F9KsH5xbxdz0j6Wx410Nfvdom+IhWaQ32g1m4Jm6f10lbVb37l11duj29DMztJ1Ewns8rGEocD3f3GHVwLn50f+oIIi.NKttD6nL6RMwmhCNBSs4E+gNtFPbsNzsCrXQIMHqZoCD8BMi7BkF0Fyaz8dH90U.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.z5DeB22EVhQc4Gik2ntgwpP0mSHuTpWk7XEMY9l1DepmkPocNu2KYTv7fCo2.nVnOSK0jWZNMMzHMiLNSxIXZbKSF9vIIDImMvOO2n9HAOX8I5J9M5cotA8IA5bOPpauE0oL8dzSgQ3qrm2Gg6SvV5LOwy7JWR5fAB35BcKOfLfJNAv2pE5cNNtyv+7hKpLMpEWKDpk9gn8AItVWaOO+EntCFxdv4JuLCZaxwC6EQhnWjrBAJmYHvrHHEfaORt99YVTvYncND7lImqhmQLfS4Rb2DWB4r43N7UncrgSr6B7V2mLfvnLvpG9JjkjFnGHs59j.BCvNzxn8HctVTOrSThELV3x0A6B2GHP2DZKWYbvUw3AQ9EwnNKGhhmvpJJBT2np+7hRUfSJqwOH1ZDOeN1iODE2d+XQZGSLwgJOks40S8MOJl+o0eg4ltITepaQpYD+flJXeiwMDKjmL51nvk4SwhhVkWskUUcZAqwK2YUBmTCq27kfmCYT+swZvut7JzS+BcQyHfR0qSl9OkstJxgWmhOdNA5MgJYmPzCF5S30ZghniBzwLQP+wjdTWWd8T3DqTa0h0PcZJuPcTdT4dmQVfx2rY9lFMffOISGdwD4nE9.TK7.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

Morphoice

@Matt_SF thats a skilled scriptnode use, but I was thinking about something more robust like the aforementioned Serum or Vital envelopes. That would be a blast to have in HISE.

d.healey

@Morphoice I think it's a very good feature request, along with the flex envelope.

Morphoice

@d-healey vital is open source btw, a skilled programmer might learn a lot from a look at it, unfortunately it's beyond my skills, nor do I know how to write modules for HISE. The main thing to get right would probably be the user experience/interface

Straticah

@d-healey said in Custom Envelope?:

I think it's a very good feature request, along with the flex envelope.

I took the time to set up a mockup if you wanna post a feature request. @Morphoice let me know if it needs any changes, i tried to stick to the HISE styleguide and made sure we dont crop the envelope to soon so it allows to display the full handles and not crop them like on HISEs other displays.

Morphoice

@Straticah brilliant!
Knobs for all the curve slope ( with 50% being linear), although the strength of the slope would be open for discussion. Some synthesizers aren't taking it far enough.
To make it versatile for filters it would be nice to have an initial level, sort of like the Yamaha CS synths did it.

And when we're at it it wouldn't hurt to have the abillity for the Attack Level and the Hold Level to be seperate levels to enable a forced countouring of the sound no matter of its note length. Especially useful for one shots like drums.

aaronventure

@Straticah You can already do this by extrapolating on the example that @Matt_SF posted (which apparently I created).

use a panel so you can define your own control scheme
have clearly defined separate stages: attack, hold, decay, sustain, release
curve setting uses skew and is done on the graph
timing can be done on the graph and using the knobs
based on the curve, set the points in the hidden tables which are connected to the backend tables (or which references you just pulled)

Because you're using skew which is just Math.pow(input, skew), you can easily draw the correct envelope.

The great thing about scriptnode is that you can define as many stages as necessary, and using the new compare node, you can easily move between stages when they're finished, so that their size can be fully dynamic. You would do this by using ramps for stages, plugging the ramp output into a compare node which would return 1 when a ramp is 1, setting off another ramp. And there's your flex envelope.

Matt_SF

@aaronventure said in Custom Envelope?:

@Straticah You can already do this by extrapolating on the example that @Matt_SF posted (which apparently I created).

Yes, here :
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/8685/merry-christmas-polyphonic-flex-envelope?_=1707308327466

:)
Nice job BTW

Straticah

@aaronventure yeah there are some workarounds. A draggable and skewable envelope should be default in HISE and native (no code).

Morphoice

@Straticah I agree. the workaround is just a workaround, however ingenious and well done. But that does not compete with other plugins - usability is key in a world this short-lived... we should aim to get the best possible user experience, hence a good stylable and draggable envelope should be a priority feature

Straticah

@Morphoice feel free to post a feature request with my draft. I didnt had much success in the past with my feature requests so far so id apprechiate if someone else does a post or suggests to christoph if you want/need that feature :)

@Straticah said in Custom Envelope?:

@d-healey said in Custom Envelope?:

I think it's a very good feature request, along with the flex envelope.

I took the time to set up a mockup if you wanna post a feature request. @Morphoice let me know if it needs any changes, i tried to stick to the HISE styleguide and made sure we dont crop the envelope to soon so it allows to display the full handles and not crop them like on HISEs other displays.

Christoph Hart

I think we have to keep the AHDSR envelope as it is and add a new module that gives you more flexibility with a performance tradeoff. The AHDSR envelope is optimized to the bone to be able to be used with hundreds of sampler voices without adding much if any CPU and a flexible envelope with dynamic loop points & adjustable curves is another beast but I second that this might be useful in hybrid synth scenarios or other use cases.

d.healey

@Christoph-Hart said in Custom Envelope?:

I think we have to keep the AHDSR envelope as it

But can we get the bugs fixed? The decay/release curve? And what about an updated GUI tile with editable points - same functionality as the current AHDSR, just a more useful UI?

griffinboy

@Christoph-Hart

I'd appreciate this. I've been working on my own one that uses SIMD by splitting the buffer into batches of 4, and is more modelled on the serum style LFO / envelope table.
If we could get something optimized that operates like that I'd love it.

griffinboy

@Christoph-Hart

Hi, I just had a question about the flex envelope feature request.
Is it going to be polynomial approximations used in conjunction with a state machine (and possibly SIMD), or a lookup table?

You said that there would be of course a higher overhead with a new flex envelope but does that mean you are planning to keep it efficient and limit the flexibility of the envelope, or will you go for a truly flexible table, like in Serum for example? My assumption is that it's likely to be LUT based right?

I just wanted to ask, because I might make my own envelope and not wait up if the flex one won't cover my needs for this current project I'm working on.

Custom Envelope?

62

1.7k

11.7k

101.7k