New feature: Release Start

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart said in New feature: Release Start:

per voice using the event ID - this should be enough for most of your feature requests,

Yeah I think that is a great idea :) thanks.

[Christoph Hart]

@d-healey Alright, this is implemented now.

• sustain pedals are now correctly supported - it 100% mimics the behaviour of the voice stopping logic now
• the sample will never jump back in time to the release offset - if the sample has already played the release trail, it just continues playing at the current position.
• you have a Sampler.setAllowReleaseStart() function that accepts an event ID for per event setting (or -1 for globally enabling / disabling the feature).

Let me know if you find other quirks. The goal is to get this usable in real projects, so don't be shy :)

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart Oh fast work, nice! I'll try it out this evening. Thanks.

[Simon]

@Christoph-Hart You just couldn't hold off on giving us more goodies, now I have to tweak my project to make use of this right away!

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart Seems to be working nicely. At first I was trying to disable it in the on note on callback and wondering why it wasn't working

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart What about this scenario.

I have a toggle switch to globally enable/disable release triggers.

Now let's say the user has enabled this switch, so I'm calling Sampler.setAllowReleaseStart(-1, true) and release triggers are globally enabled.

But then they play a legato transition, so for that individual event I want to disable release triggers, I call Sampler.setAllowReleaseStart(eventId, false) - only it doesn't disable it, the global setting overrides it.

I think it should be the other way around, that individual events can override the global setting.

I also noticed a little glitch in the sample editor when the sample has a loop. The playback does jump to the release portion, I can hear it, but visually it's just hanging around in the loop. In this gif I released the key almost as soon as I pressed it - you can see the cursor jumps to the loop instead of to the release.

[d.healey]

Does lazy load not affect release triggers? I'm seeing some RAM is still being used.

[Simon]

One last thing preventing me from using this is the situation with envelopes. I would need to script additional logic to change the envelope between two different settings, one for when playing back sustains and one for releases. Although I appreciate that that's even possible in HISE (it isn't in Kontakt), keeping envelope adjustment in the UI is much nicer.

I think a "ReleaseXfade" parameter in the mapping editor would be ideal. A quick fix might be to re-use the loop xfade time and gamma.

I'd also prefer releases to play as oneshots, so the natural release sound isn't affected by an envelope. I usually bake the final short fade out during render, but in HISE I would adjust the fade out with the Sample Editor Envelope.

[d.healey]

@Simon said in New feature: Release Start:

one for when playing back sustains and one for releases.

Only the release portion of the envelope affects the release triggers.

[Simon]

@d-healey Interesting, I thought the attack was affected as well. When I set a long attack on the sustain groups I could have sworn I no longer heard the release sample. I'll check again to see what I did!

[Simon]

In any case I would still need to script toggling between two release times depending on whether it's going to a legato (~130ms) or a release sample (infinite/as long as possible/just have a long Hold time).

[d.healey]

@Simon said in New feature: Release Start:

it's going to a legato (~130ms) or a release sample

Wouldn't you just disable the release entirely for legato transitions and use a scripted fade?

[Simon]

I suppose I could, though it looks like addVolumeFade() only does linear. What would be the advantage over setting the envelope times in script? The point is it's nicer to work by adjusting the envelopes from the existing UI.

Right now my sustain, legato and release samples all have fade times of 180ms, but that's more out of necessity. If the release xfade is decoupled from the envelope as you say, that's very useful and one less thing to think about.

[d.healey]

@Simon said in New feature: Release Start:

What would be the advantage over setting the envelope times in script?

Not sure there is one :)

[gorangrooves]

@d-healey said in New feature: Release Start:

Wouldn't you just disable the release entirely for legato transitions and use a scripted fade?

You should still have release samples on the legato. That is actually a giveaway that an instrument is virtual and not real. Think about what happens in real world if you were playing a note, say in a concert hall, then played another one legato. As you are transitioning to another note, the initial note would be ringing around at the same time. So, if you want to keep the realism, you must include release notes when playing legato.

[d.healey]

@gorangrooves I'm assuming Simon is using legato interval transition samples.

[Lindon]

@gorangrooves said in New feature: Release Start:

@d-healey said in New feature: Release Start:

Wouldn't you just disable the release entirely for legato transitions and use a scripted fade?

You should still have release samples on the legato. That is actually a giveaway that an instrument is virtual and not real. Think about what happens in real world if you were playing a note, say in a concert hall, then played another one legato. As you are transitioning to another note, the initial note would be ringing around at the same time. So, if you want to keep the realism, you must include release notes when playing legato.

But thats not always how instruments work, back to your concert hall and we will play a violin, we play a C and then an E (by moving up the same string).....now the first note(the C) is not being produced by the violin, and all we have is the reverb tail from the hall - which we address with a reverb FX...

[Simon]

@d-healey We really need some new samplespeak words for "legato" and "release" that don't have such ridiculously large overlap with other adjacent concepts.

I put forth "glithe" and "fradeaway" for your consideration.

As in

"Let's re-record that C# to D# glithe transition"

"When the user lets go of the key, we play a fradeaway sample"

"Denoising fradeaways is a massive pain"

"We spent five days recording 800 bespoke trombones playing three octaves of bespoke glithe samples"

I expect these will be a massive success, ambiguity when discussing samples will be eliminated, think of the time savings!