Filter ADSR?

[Straticah]

Hey there i want to create a quick instrument with a filter as the adsr. I can not deactive the main gain adsr tho (HISE tells me there needs to be one gain adsr) i dont want to have two independent adsr running tho for obvious reasons :). What is the best way to do that? I think opening the gain adsr all up is an option but gives strange overlapping sounds when playing chords thru the filter adsr.

tx in advance

[Lindon]

@Straticah how would this work?

" a filter as the adsr." -- one takes audio signals and (huh) filters them, the other provides a modulation signal...

[Straticah]

@Lindon as reference how do analog synths do this? Most of them use LPG or filters to control adsr. :) i want to replicate that.

[d.healey]

@Straticah

Most of them use LPG or filters to control adsr.

I think you have this reversed.

An envelope (ADSR in this case) controls a parameter over time. For example you can use an envelope to control a filter's cutoff over time, but you can't use a filter to control an envelope.

What about assigning a simple envelope to the gain and putting the attack at 0 and the release at 20000. Then assigning an ADSR to your filter parameter?

[Straticah]

@d-healey yes you are right i wanted to say the filter gives control over the attack, but the attack is also a parameter which controls a filter. Your example would mean i need a filter in each voice, is there a matching fx module for a polyphonic filter?

[d.healey]

@Straticah I'm not sure, I haven't looked into this.

[Straticah]

@d-healey can be done with scriptnode polyphonic fx but the filter does not close all so you can hear some notes still ^^ but this can be fixed somehow maybe another filter type

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[Lindon]

@Straticah
" i wanted to say the filter gives control over the attack"

-- what David said: you have this the wrong way round -- the filter cannot sensibly control the envelope, one is a processor of audio - the other is a modulation source.

[Lindon]

@Straticah said in Filter ADSR?:

@d-healey can be done with scriptnode polyphonic fx but the filter does not close all so you can hear some notes still ^^ but this can be fixed somehow maybe another filter type

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..and this I assume is some attempt to get a polyphonic filter ( so each note plays a sound that is then modified by its own filter). Filters dont, classically, work this way - they are applied at the output buss for the sound generator - filters are too expensive to apply on a per note basis - and the routing would be a nightmare.

[Straticah]

@Lindon yes i wasn't talking about hise but about synths in general from the 70s 80s where one or more filters give the ability to fade into the oscillator.
because there is a difference in sound if i use a filter or a gain knob. i know that the filter does not control the envelope, but it shapes the amplitude over time.

my moog example sound strange maybe does not work in poly

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[Straticah]

@Lindon exactly, but i dont see any problems in that if its not hardware :) maybe limit the voices to 3 like in hardware synths or something but should be possible to give each played voice an own filter with poly scriptnode right? I was thinking about pitch shifting each played note to give it the drift of old synths. (would be best to do this in midi tho and not with the audio signal but also no idea how to do that since this would be a polyphonic midi effect)

[Lindon]

@Straticah said in Filter ADSR?:

@Lindon exactly, but i dont see any problems in that if its not hardware :) maybe limit the voices to 3 like in hardware synths or something but should be possible to give each played voice an own filter with poly scriptnode right? I was thinking about pitch shifting each played note to give it the drift of old synths. (would be best to do this in midi tho and not with the audio signal but also no idea how to do that since this would be a polyphonic midi effect)

-- exactly how will you isolate each notes sound? You could decide you wanted to be 8 note polyphonic and have 8 sounds sources(8 samplers or 8 synths) and round robin assign incoming note to these (monophonic) sound sources, and then have a filter in each sound source, but as I'm sure you can see this becomes impractical very very quickly.

[Straticah]

@Lindon thats true, but in this example i have exactly what i want each voice has its own filter, all notes have the same envelope tho which is okay. next step would be the drift which can appear on each triggered voice, this has to be midi tho so it does not eat cpu.

HiseSnippet 1889.3oc6Zs7aaTDFeV6NtwIsP4QEbCK0KsRPTbZofDGx1DGSinNwTGRgSgo6N1dT1cFytiShKBIDvAj3.mPndAwYNw0dKRbBohDR8HWfSvwxeAv2rO7NqeEaSbP7HQJxy273622y46abp5Irn99BOjQ9s6zhhLNGtVGtr4ZMILNZiRHim.Wg3KodEBIsZmVDeepMxvH6qqHXj+Lnfed7JqRbHbKZBIDZGAyhdKlKSlPsp4avbbJSroayb0V80L2vRvWS3HZC3IKdITKh0djFzMIpkkAiLxstMSJ7pIIRpOx3LqJr6Tqo3.d352g4ytqCUMnHpFbPgjKKbrUHV8YzZMYN1UikaeDx.WMQKjMTK7r3JLaVW5IZiKDLQgjcnqOLxLJ3UbJgmgF7NSH7dJbMKOVKYxLJrs.dCNXnpS.SfNrBWKx3H7ZBXAb4htj8nk8fAc2vku9RK8hEf+bkWqdatkjI3ED7MER5V7Kek4e+4yO+GLegdmpd8ANmhMdBGGp2.mVY08F0FuLus6coduXg8INsocWHH9o0u4FO8qUnTqsPAeCNStUKZz3DKPwAXAPQpM3Su0FkHRhxnDQCVWKpmjofiQI59f2dnIJOtD0eOonE3u2m8C7hD1scHxztVp3onI.8QJanxPw8YxN5wayD+swEtOEtJSZ0bv3My.vKn0Fe7tz.wawiAuQQumGud85TKYBXOCt7aOsgpSGTtXHTV.eGx9zfTpA.4hAiqK7bK75TN0SoSKNhjp+33lTs0XmTcKKI.gs8Hb+VBeZQ8Stm4VVetRTYat9xKbTHoTqRIdkAwSacyYFSbYchUI7T7FFm5jpvNLY3Oux5bBXPpQAowdKeKPXU5N8vgpsc7o2gYKaVTeiIjWVm7MId1fcwJkCZ1oJfJcbq15GP17b+MbYyz4AOayUkc7TsGy8g4iwXMlaKG5578oNPB4.L9zPF35j1NxXpoiypH3hVMEbVJOfaSkdrFMnobrFn.cCoDpNI8dcnD+jXuO8Ql2hwoDOPOQm85hQYuddbHbKnRNTXFcGyIua1HuiI6+hti4uV4fOAtpvoSXYd.FTf44BHE5eWHblBke6hCrtvW.OnZvzJ6BeB4tpUH0lT4ABu8BDnnOC4FCQdqtHeW+.Hta8CKhtgii3f0DtsXQtBfDDPKQPUEdDtBJXV3bpyMbEsA9YfMx.L8lD+sILG0x1g54GbHmEuzhvufeylAQo3xDKPV6Tk.2XCNfphGAKL0aQqtV5gAQckq5zhu0EafBDdWWkvGzHSVsBGCsopQfmbFECNGdC+cTyZQbP6nJBVgYj5LC0XAPMPcMO11qytGPkPUrCC49sbfRETVrpDOnWJnleU4pYzwX9b2uwW9GJbpKEowbL+iUUI7ukhmGilaRzNwbJqlj9jwR5ttrCgDzoX2EBXG32t3g0gZf7FJ2RjScNFGyYjoGKSldrLOIdy1tZZwHiSn+EpmEmCGj4OZMygCuM.gpcfJq11DuFTY.SzID0bAmFDP5mdXjteC6XEeCklsKdTzyEb0bZlL9moR8N7yTSvUNswifnnJLdjXpU.G4vdn83UpIospwtWp0UaO5AgFyTW5VREbFd.8cz2nsT3BYir6FWjJbHPBR4er.3e3QWrwnbDOVWiL5tFoUFYGsx3cNpekAH3oUFe88u+CVoOkwQM91KZF5MEXDNFcgFNxMVFEyO2brvw69LkdzJgOyPMWgP1jwazKXtl4wv+SB8v4v2l5SkCwy.oka5rXRSa+9xTPipGbwvYmf7R3Ql0dz4FNQB5wX+8qmN1bAbYO560lxs5bLA8JYAJR9v3mvnDCtXfzY01PgLgQzonnjJtM8PkD7GvOq6dWpMDJDrck5HcDP9I1y6S+twyyybyJeefm2bQUwpa0m6qt+CdSyI2sehyEc9HleKJ38f56vPydwOG9lPtnINl6jf0mE5kxhzoGdej2oghOOtVaeYpTeezWr1m47q+zogROONtstjC5C+Mm5y8MmlNcq01a+9R18yqbBgfGuxvQvB3jVh6OY6rm+pa8jCJOeRSgcyohllhp0ShgRUXqpVnYUgs5kPGlTOESNOtNyQgoEUSMs8UzaB+xgmYxGmvT74FcQNWyr+vsGYNVN7ler6OD4tkbaVe0oL1U5Xd0q9nU5ALG8vGdowCLnK86+X.XxheyINQ+xCnBmkMmrn9gUo2rKgywVbm4ubuOYZR2bAyIMbWukoS0LM4wgOwr8.r4o5vnaOR+eGF+mrCi+x2xLz1nmQUQLGtjWm6.cDz24Ldccz6Kujp+i3dzQC00EspPrmKI309lweCpUXG9OmW294va4asbgfm3tve+uw8sEskPDWEBTtmph.nY1ZPVKq32R0OtU1nwKEW.RMJ2do3RHhlrnZrQzjEim7TgGtDKOwtQOGnxodt.JfbyC9+HIOthZbghn8iZPW8DvHWlMaWKK063+Rf9Yv6Y4oXOWcJ1y0lh87xSwdt9TrmWYJ1yqNx8n9VNitiQ4+CDptdXInFwWICgBn+D.TehoE

[Lindon]

@Straticah said in Filter ADSR?:
okay deleting all of this because now I can make it work....hmm...nice

hmm. ... but now its leaving that risidual again...

[Straticah]

@Lindon ye i am getting closer last thing would be the voice drift, will make a thread for that and see, maybe it is custom script with a midi container

HiseSnippet 2075.3oc6Zs7aabbFeVRMzhRJ1Io0ws.EnDH.EJnoBjxtIAHHfqjnnsPMknMUkSOoNd2gjCzt6rY2YkDcPOkCI.8P6gVT3a8XOzC8ZuYfBTfTn.jF+OPBPNDzStGx4jY1GbmguzRZIk5jRAHv442uu2eyLroG0.66S8.ZE2smKFnsDrUOGV2M5hHNfspAztLrAxmg8JE0058bQ99XSflV9aJ5Pq3bfvOOo55HKjiANsK.XOJw.eahMgk1aS8eAwxpNxDuKwVZ12PeKCpyFTKZ.GO4gkAtHiCPcvaiDSKGDnUXSSBi50hgXXef1bqSM60pK8Hmn4uGwmbeKrnQEPK9FE0ccpko.whuC1nKwxrYBe6C.ZvloRg7QRguOrAwjzu+TowyGNPozUHKOzxMI3UYFgmlD7lKBdu.rkgGwkkNh.aKB2xgqnZi3p.YXEMWf1ifaP4SvgshM5.bcOdi9KX4Wqb4WsD+euxa1NvwfQnNknNaSY3cbV9UV3cWn3B+lEJM3PsaOxwDjwiZYg8F4vBst2jV3xNA12G68pkNDYEf6OQN6qJeKjM4qQDWKMQpyVND1Nt331oZfJiPC.hEa7u8K2pFhgDJk393yyE6wHB3nUCeH2ZOREUDVC6e.i5xs2GR+wshnlAVHlpokveJd.t7PQGJTTN9DVOY+smZ6sQxsYDtu.rIgYzcz3M2HvKWpkc7Vdlvar26yA2rcarAKEryAq+1ypq5rAkqFAkEg2CcHNLjZHPtZX61TO6R2D6f8DxzJSHn5Gm0fptYNn5NFLND10C436R8wUj24AFaU4wpgYANxSurdTWJyRvd04rmz7lWOoyUk6rIxQg171J6TCxwoM+zpa5f3JjVXN2XtiuAmYExNY2glAV936QLYcqHuvztWUt6ag7L45ECECz7yjCkpeqz7GQz7BeCjro7Yty+Serp7YSzdJ4CKlfwVDaWK7lNGhs3AjCw3Kxi.2FEXwR5U0OqA0g51k5PTr.tKl4Q5zAqXXMRFZMFiWch5ZsvH+TeuO3w52l3fQdb4D97WVLI80O.FA2RhfCkNmxwT9hMGS9uEkiYJJGL+vxtKCaRs5EUlGGCBvbsvthruKEMRo5uckQVW3OFNpZvjJ6BdFYtJUH01X1QTuCBsgi+NO1XDxc6i788Cg39sOtBXMKK5QaPscIwlBbNHruTFUT3QzLvb0hiC1ZMaZ.mdZPsbbhdKj+tHhkXZ6g87C2jKAKuB+Otcy1gdov5HCNu1qIhmwla.JJdjqgwdqXzWSONHJKbE6VRVWnFHj4ssELe3AYxKU3XjarnE2RNmf.KA2xeOwnFHKvdhhfEXFH1yHIVHTCEWK.M85s+QXFuJ1wgbeWKdoBBMVSjG+rT7Z9EkqlSFiEK7vN+ouRfSYtPEyIzOQTkReWAMOEI2zHcRnTdIN8JIb591ji4AnUH2yGRNtc6JG2lWCj2XoVJeJSwDeNsbCnYxMfl4JvsCrkjhwJmH6Kv.St.LLxe7blGFkM..ZcjHp1tHuNXVHQj6H9vEN3PGRe0lwx9sLSD7cDR193QzegvTypDI66oP7N98ThwEFsIs3dQMHNwroTAbniGnumTsEC61h7.k405.7QQJSkjt0DNmQavPa8ZALpMOZjYe+BE2gPNPw9XQt8gGdkNSxP7TMMxIaZnJLxOYgwu5QCKL3Ltpv3O+vG92qNjv3Qc9aWUOxZJTIbJxBIbTHSJE8emdlvwu96U6wUitlgV1TJqKwoyff4F5mB8OKjCKAuK1GyFikAPJ1zkfntl9CEo.GWO3JQiNEwkfSLp8jiMbl3zeEnEw4.9BefGOIWOUuzEg08vuS.1wn2o39K3Jd4xGmbYF0H7TDndqGvKoIx2VoGA+4XhOVvKeE+yl12GaxcJBWtPvn5KTbpsA+f+Q1rA02twGFZCNeb8rx5e8+8Imrl9z6.L0QkdtXheaL2NJEAewOox7+0ez+oJ37m8K.uEOpDXnc4BfzWhepJCTOYZ+6+jSV5dWDB9hvVA9Lkff2dob+z2+k9vKBgdQXxA7j1naU.T5gWjFcaD3c3Pg8dR0yHD7jpiGAKBSOb7vgcO+ouH+GaTQ7SOdX+nqfYo7Z4fX.kRbEUEcdUhqbwzCFdWgbWC1lXIP2JpSZVO0wfIApGs6oecJC6WXxk.cC8gcAerdlbBzeO6OJ1DLMC2PUwj45fzu90eb0A.yiN4jWNafA7x+2ONDL4g2Yp8CWcD0+rp9zEIXb0Ad9EDZxk98V+k+4G8aeveXVBAAzm1P.xGn5BM5SQXzEPaNBctx4O5eBp++4O9N44Odpy7L1CYeNUYw7vZd8tG+TBCsOY8LIp2KixYRRNAOXrltf0ozCrQg2E3S86qF+d.unzseFmKKxGNpwjdvM.HMESb5hO6f+n9cjkKp2m+x52I.YobMzMzWm3RsPdY5Jpm8q+etLdO5uTZdymkt7egl4YG79CgwJ8RBg8yN39xv67+Vf8RQfcd3FcodA9wttQMTccuq3.AwAsu4m8upF9JuIwq+xk+7p0wXy6q7LceQ0ZXKjJCk+r58MtKMfwSK0.wOmjnr4sCrawSsaj7bD9I2FTb6xIUo2B6XVNoN63AqHZqEOXkjAy9Kz1fb7yNFgWCtiuwpkBetuRey+deWDJxKBZXiL7n6G+zHhLFyG1CmucB+M0UD1PztTEvgwWVo34v.1DSx9FFh2z7mwkOidMqNCq45yvZtwLrle9LrlWaFVyqOCq4Ml3ZD+hOhqnVX+y6n4lQG3VK4.HbWAvWCjHsAuO

[lalalandsynth]

@Straticah Why do you want to use only a filter envelope and not a regular VCA/Volume envelope too ?

[Lindon]

@Straticah might be better control like this:

HiseSnippet 1966.3oc6Z0DaabbEdVRMzhR1INowH8VHPt3.jHHJ6llhT.tRhhwBwThwTUV8j53cGRNP6Ny1cmURLA4PSxg.jC4TQgu0q8VOzK4Rh.xkTfT.i5i4PbNkqN2CP5L6Obmg+IRZI0j1HAXn8M+79d++d65F9LKbP.yGXTbmtdXfwkgM6R4cVuChPAaVEX7Tv5n.N1uTLo055gBBv1.Ci7ugjfQw4.Q+73JqgbPTKbFI.XWFwBeahKgmQsg4aRbbpgrw6PbU18MM2zhQWm4vBE3IObYfGx5.Ta7VH41xAAFE1vlvY9M4HNN.XL2ZL6tM6vNhFu+cIAj64fkOTFzTbQwjqwbrkHVRErdGhiciT4N..LfMxzB4i0BOGrNwlzidl13pQKTJ6Dp5Cib5vKuF7JqBukUf2PfjgBjlKFROCrokOwimshDOKB2jJLNsPB0tJTh2Kv3D35LwFn7kbQGfq4Kdn2At9qt7xubIw+7RudqPpEmvnkXzsXb71zq+RK7NKTbg2cgR8uTqVCcMIa7YNNX+gtrzR6OtCdcZn68v9uboCQNg3daTH955T3n0oplbqXoVYiL5lTBeaOLcTNBfDUk3u9caVEwQRCQBMw97v9bhDBFUwGJ7piMKEgUwAGvYdB+5ArYBuElcnChq6BIiaRVPnCzraRiCMfv6pFWcl4WMoP7YfMHbqNCGi4FBFEZpyCLlDMdE3FsZgs3Y.bNXs8NeB8TY+0hY+hv6hNDGkVLh4WK54VLe2RuAlh8k5txiIw3ClzDidSbhwss3BHriOhF3wBvkUu49VaE00ph4gT0sW5jXRZ6RJd0Dhmx9l2Lk3JpDafnZ7V7r1MUmbb1iOpxFTjvHzDKjF6sCrDBqT2o5p2HzI.eWhMuSY0ClQdEUx2B4aKrKVZNh4GWMhxyXMhB+nqFwOAR2nUFqXJFaRb8bvaPOD6HxoFgwmUjDsEJzgmRUObpNix75vnDMC8cvbeR61XM+mgJPqx4hFIzOqCFEjEhs2GZdaBEi7E5I7LpKJO0kzGp85WBigaIYNfROI1s4lL61387OSJYj++oKYLLS6SAavb5F2ElfuR.77Qjh8iKEuRoZ6Udnss8Bvg0hjRWQvyH2Rkdd1ByOh4ePj.k72h7dwH2qGx2OHBh6253xfUcbXGsNy0ijXxERPDsLAU1uP7NvBSAkhcV0kEJ3mAzHmfo2BErCh3H21tX+fnK4RvkWR7qv+XqnnQXMjkPV61.IJ.Kbzj81IrpX+kr5YcGEDUUtxaKsHJz.DI7ttRgOZ1h7J83EaSkOI7XyIYvkgaFrqbUKjCXWYOpRLCj2YrFKBpQpqEf19c2+HLuLXjHOvyQT4WZwZf7Ei2HZIW1YYNULVrv8a+W9AINUkBcLmx+TUUF+8j77TzbSi1IkSyoHoOcpjtuK4XQhXM1c0H1I7aW53VhVZ7GI2xjSUNllVRDnpaYx0mk4ogaE5pnESLNw9Wf91bAXTF9j8LOLNqO.z7HY1qcP9sw7HlnRHYN.JNJfLP+wDc+l1oJ91RMaO7HoWHpDrNSl76TpdG8cpH3Rm1zmDQQ0IzDwToeLzw8Q6wUZxwdMIus19Zd.9nXioVw0pxfy3KXfqd0PNyUjMxtWbgV3PjDn4ernv+vGuT6w4HdptF4TcMzUF4Gux32exfJCgfqqL9q2+9eRkATFmz9ueMyXuoHivonKTvQgIxnX9wlSDN9C+hpOrR7aAnoKiw6Pns6GL2z7T3+Ygd3xv6fCv7Q3Y.TxMcIHpicv.YJvI88sT7pSQdI3XyZO9bCmIA8PnmKRO1LMFY7A7R4PzH7wouogpDQQAT20BEMtDGMqQQJQTa7wRz+Che1v8dXaQXPzwkpBcu+hSsW2G94SlWm4V0+mQdcymzoppE+pE.l6YN8t7Scdnqjv7aiEdNfAtLv4u3W.dKQdnoNd6rf0WRLujEpae79D+KBEeQXyv.tVZu26Ou9G47se0EgRuHLczMkKZ64.+1+zEoS25g9GNPhtGU4LBAOtxnQvhvrwdGLQ64O+kU73CKGe1fe8xmpl2ONKoVV+qzq+P4RyZi5CiwiLScvgszyTuHrlO9OFhoVcmttGt.akZ7F0G+YO4.YAX8PGNwyQIix2+29t+c868fJW.rGBW0VIO5d+l+wWb3m90U.yx7Xp1Pf1LQx1nOulIJmlmtzKqOO8VDGIlVRtzL6o2W+B0huyr+bJ6Pnv38vuo4fYqen4DYYMee2+UR1prvqAZwch8xMuwMdXk9.yIe4W9hSFX.u328fHvjG9VSceBqLjliWwb5buG0PBme0qN04BL+l29ClkpUW0bZqVnNs8EZgphv3O1f8Pr4ZCm1a75ed3z+ub3zm3pLi7MvbN0D57vp9cuqXfxAtmIaf09eocCez0Q55BViwNvEE8hhOm+N40IGW5G0em7mGtcf0Jkh9xGk9uym93NrPtHxpNRLUfrx+VgtMEYmrRec6AousijmWNsQilXp8xosJjrXY4yFIKVNcwKDd3hr7Y6mLQfz4c9HJB4lF8+9mhv5xmKUFbXx6vQ9UB.tDax9VVxOuyqTF.F9YVYFNyMlgybyY3L+pY3Lu5Lble8LblWarmQ9QtSpkH84EDZrQbqlFokdEt+f+C9aSy4.

[Straticah]

@lalalandsynth i am not that deep into hardware that is outside of eurorack but do oberheim synths or prophets use a volume envelope after the filter envelope?
vca would be a simple gain knob for the signal going into the filter outside of hardware i think

[Straticah]

@Lindon this one would mix the unfiltered sound with the filtered tho which we dont want or am i missing something? :)

[Lindon]

@Straticah its just your envelope modulated filter - but passing the envelope signal through a scaling function so you can have the envelope apply (start from) a different freq value...