Cable table latency/sync issue.

lalalandsynth

I am not sure what is going on here but the Cable Table is not correct.
It is too early and this gap increases as I increase the buffer.

I first encountered this with our CC output so I tested with audio.
This is a cable table , run with a clock_ramp, processing input audio via a gain module.
Exported as FX plugin - Tested in Reaper and as demonstrated its always too early.

I will test with a "normal" modulator as well, but have not done so yet so I do not know if this is just a Scriptnode problem.

Ramp not sync.png

lalalandsynth

@lalalandsynth The "normal" modulator does not seem to have this problem with latency and buffer settings. But it has another problem, is seems to apply some smoothing or something even though the smoothing is set to zero.

Using a table modulator controlling gain.

With audio going through it always starts the envelope with a "bump" in sound and also seems to have built in decay ?
Why is this, does not make sense, unless this modulator is late ? Confused at this point.
Ramp not sync 2.png

lalalandsynth

@lalalandsynth Putting the Scriptnode into a frame2Block helps a LOT , now it is a bit late and varies with buffer size , but , better.

Any recommendations for getting this to sync perfectly ?
I dont understand the effect of these Frame blocks etc.

What am I overlooking here ?

Christoph Hart

Can you post a snippet that reproduces this issue? I can't say what could cause this without looking at what you actually did, but I suspect there's something going on in the clock ramp (I've never used it myself apart from initial tests so chances are good there's something fishy in there).

Try setting the AddToSignal parameter to true, then it will fill the audio buffer with the actual ramp signal. Then you can check whether the ramp signal is correct and the error is introduced in the cable wiring that comes after it.
try changing the UpdateMode from Synced to Continuous to check if one is better than the other. They define how to handle tempo changes (jump to the correct ramp position or maintain a steady signal) but also might introduce subtle timing issues.

lalalandsynth

@Christoph-Hart Sure, will try this and post a snippet.

lalalandsynth

@Christoph-Hart
I tested exporting a plugin with a knob to set to change the update mode.
The "early"problem appears when set to Synced mode.
When set to continuous its better but a bit late.
Both of them contain a "bump" of audio at the start , see image.

If I put the whole thing into a frame2 module it behaves like when set to continuous, for some reason? I did not test frame2 module and switching between continuous and synced.

I could not get Addto Signal to work in terms of getting audio from the ramp in Reaper?

CC Test - Synced is early , Continuous is late

Audio Test - Same thing, Synced is early , Continuous is late
Both contain that bump in the beginning. ( is there some sort of inbuilt de-click/slope on the Table ? If so could it be removed and set with a knob ?
Sync bump.png

Audio test snippet.
Sorry for the messy test snippet, want to keep it as is.
(Changes to the Scriptnode are not saved in the XML so if I change it, its permanent.)

But its simplified in terms of Ramp going to the table, table to gain.
Clockramp_2 is running cable table_0
CableTable_0 to gain module.

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EuyAG.jNTGeI2NsrjTz33tv5N8hA+WClCXEScaHdhtAvlPe3XnqyFy1DnaI4UzM.pyGE73A8HrBDxWFWD44OEIh2EzOzgJ9bnbNtRKVNvOOHkkCE+qwiwVJlVKaHK5xarGgGD0+31KBlsq9osDkj.E2j1u1xhFcOZEQiUzGnIgnzOmTw15F17yf03oEErFGNcnZK7hva5JfQhg3yl2cB8l1qPrxwGl3ofsBMEb9WzbTXi28D8GGxZIocaf71scOQUUOykzFJGiaPJUNQjZSLCnMY9CF8JEkCsExeRLF7IeybFoI+P9JDwcTIV6lywRWjuy9rF80G0HHgoE5Rn+L+FNyy1RE+s.xuUce7cOioAuFzibUCzyXKn49EDCns718CnSufuc+vu.V+GeAngJIFy.Clp5m9o5FGa1WrqrisEXt.MC7FIJkUTIwp6Q5XerNomO4IXSpnrQ6VZy9MGIBToIND.r4tF7.hqahTL.NHeg16sdqVquKOyjih9t28+9KRT7FIM0f5gf88Ms9dIwAvjrOZzD58LfkxCk8mlIdutIcKnW2vTxgggqEAFRbflks1R+n.tVOj7PkmF+b1XB5d+2RScBt5+MeY152Xva38sbtg26nodVrINhXIzaxh1LQPmiel4vbNNBc1eS3kwBxBO2d4dSGV0ZnY01mSGGwgY9Zujr0GZFXT4TfYZxjJ7SHV7Kz6P30B9UNV7asKE3WkXwuGeo.+VJV7auKE3W0XwuO6B.+lNw4LYp3z86F1Bru7yi.KiXHiJclQFwfFG+5gdvFhX71rou82OSJSoySj8pnY4QjBkno0jowDelidhrfMwX7MRZxolxMxAoVEZxbAJe7oZJBJhW0LUoZpvtd7GdYyg6sP7QO2myC2H9YHKG4LDeryjMCIhTMUPFQxjwQm7v8vsugF29l9iqFISyjgNwm.xiAkJYjMnz0SPRLmRhQ6v2yTZlzc8DU9LmRgUw+zpv6q46xt9ie55asSq04V1Y2MbKaG96Brar4V6gKHk1zymx7ld76ViBkCOjgIhUbIhUrIhqwFdWwISNQkW1odWomRge+4eWSlve4kmm0MX.zeHnQe8qsq.8tzo+5Ki97JqYpXcF86dOy95PmTT7NrsPu20nwwqEANxvbtfi1eSsuE65Gb.nd3gfWmcie4EvGP6aPF+BNww5WhGbeGRaZj3wC5gSUlnuMi4lB4m6fddIBOSGsWnz0TL6qJd1JC.5x.WA5qDgymd6+soX49nOhaUCYTV1PjyBsvUecCKtiD0jTkMJv48IH1sxeNoNuuP0cw8eu.0i9jwxU.A+8NRl6PCEItt1qJwoIKKYhxYJcj4rWQh6.cXLfVt0F6f6EJipblVWNEKXN6AnGQ01UUu6wKVHD1f9f7tNFROBFoh3vryU2GJf6J2oJppbZ5mx02PF3IXfByZkMzDUsahIr0ytxKBcRwD26dxvfAsTzhSzjSUW6Pz+FQOUL09IVbFCzzTzND20hnVs1xeJGRLfocESNSKcXYAo6CzFAeFXJiAmhFM3v..HOzfYpqq4LngAmngEvAcfFX9.Xb3d6w75gB5pW2sOeMQyHQGbBXNobwPU1ByzV2lpcYusQXPDT.gGRvpthNTIJ3k.FArIbmkOQViS4.tgvoVjqHzfyzGvo2SAMPPUnur0DEEaPZKYs35oehL2.MX9wP4W2OR0HTcaZSDqhnghkt+Oy8amJnzfbaYO8V.7JZh+vIitKcOfqCpsn8839cTkpS3I5qfgVWXpE5SKe3lM5uKqSmXaO7C2zm6mRdvaVzhcH6GXk9UswNGSH1OWx4yKSaYMI7C+evO1Ux6ZVApj2oRuurqLOV15TTbnQF8r+afVPV3tGaqAlGAXBHlj0NQVUGLC9TvRE9necC1RKB+OlkwdzBqepXuHAXBDWVKc0y5ejtlRWTQjV3PBK2Se.ZwVBc7yEM2STQEspRtq8X7AQaZx6Z3rVhnUpuCK5yWKX1GzA55Z9OR7yyRL1F+Qn25k8gOxjv6QCfSDrH7M.25gW6G7M.reC0i3FSQvDVzPcCVvRshESrXEoZ+CdRGnqSMPEPQslPh9Fq6QMVtsX7FtYnFtYYwVB1G3P8CSbFvpGdUmpQCm4sUketyGql.K0ErD3Y6LD60Y+o7vp+dxL.7tOA+81JZO09SpDRAjYawma+7zr70gBZ6drEYY4gmIhO7QNiY4AV5foVBMPOLA.LeP.WMF.OKK5Jdp.Be.FIE59QaBvhB32Bcm51SuMIyk4q6SLrm0N6cgVHwAzTekgRJ3EhA7EX2TCzlTNQNHd680Jhgwyyx8DMNT1BUFkx4sX6hbYXex6Jvm146gmN.ViWjtISjFpsOaN+kmFI1JsOExbTrmqOJtOQ+iTTPMjHX.nHSAVH6RLkhsFtINRIGpp2QTceL85gNn5bfNSj8bZ1CQ1J70iowa9HfzfhyeOVyd55fYUo8cO5l9E.+.WAPDsLc1knQBre2nmfcUbMDlLMKsF5sX2Br.Bt6tKxfjegxTTBkoRiPIFk86AcjuD4Gdz4lguJOEblA8ojojO0+H6AZjlisMlIgeS28jybCE4YW2NvQ9ZZjpW4hTIgkUTRJFsJJ8BRy7oH.KXA+6hnxSkX+ZmOynhSilks2.0HwbT4uNvb+hpHv6afZ8LrqBT3AG3G0mmE7Z8K.o3h10NZud1vP+qj0RjGPWvhl.l17QneWVChyvK5qMwKuvelLDpWuRs5USiclYYolWXSRyxZppagiZo3E4J.QOEMRuc8MiEnRZ95LfucfsxJ94nyRz5wU4iOxeQq2G1e.5AfYDhqMMeJp1tddFAakfh5uoqiz7madROsemUbcUl+JWoeG2UZGq5WFbi91ztQy+5zOZ9W+VQeuH7rkOFGehaAqngwaPtGOYKiek2xy4yiE9g527zjgj3mFepbi6h2ksgXjgR+OH4mEdr0nRi57kxPO15bAZqIBut3SnWWkda0qKgKj3WR60kP150UxiMyr1Kv1G8c+JEQlwe7shqiW46Wl56WVCced+Mt.ex7+ymudHkPzQT.fjQPKyN9j3qMSjydzuWaeOhrX3E9z060QVRRVhboIVmsR8EgeN3CQ+twpvuJuSZedHl2GpNXYgXEjtumdygG6hQrBfOyAQXDzyaabKNu3+ulBecxc6VHCb6V3J2teazs6qEyaxPTRhOMqv52SUgQGf6fcHaBFY8503mTWammsMx01k2uM4TK9Zx8VaYvahuBfav1WV73.39MIdIhp40VT4R0pK16uP3c88WT9BOptkeGHptIKxnWES2yCe5S9Bg2hxCyTsdXfPAmN+uly2dK3ujr4B9.atn.aE68Vb4cGB9keWF1hvkzHyWNC1hP4q1hv6pQlubZc3ubV3veskpWpTcgLxg+UdM6vus+lkeGxey38M22FgNLzgz0dyDG522ShmkCkkDG56y1vM73Ot2boW4wi7N8ls8m3N+5+3e7+3gsOV9TeoukWc3e58ZRHD7YALDTnzSn4IPGBiGLLgvil+qMSDd7r6t1+0CIt16ZbIHxTo4HF+rfOLKJ8HHa4S8h5Dw5aijD892HOWM4tGsUZhCoteygFpS9M7Y0FekFnaKsE43MP66.mGv5LYKHLQie3OkNoXSHYN94auLQijBgXhkRASTHwHo+yZTJ3hBg3hkRAWrTVffwxFuN48WXeob4SFqbBwMgQy7BfVIiAlsn0v07lyE2PhMSlQt0F2mDJGRVmLbMvaYJ.xRsIo3YjiZpBA2obgcIgFMZTqgPk5kpTsdsJAQ0gLTiPl4anFWQV4wRjIjVQVDSOSFtFby6oPlMq8lp1BrBOD1n6FIFCNYj22.enXvsdLLrTHUXYxWaHAmcrQhlyaCCam5OuXnI38skVTU37XJTB1z+vvyoHqrAaRq+.q8EGIFNDaF1u5VjRt8gwJ46fcZT8i0BktGu+XhyQHCGKKIgu60jfdlbTLCVHOf9i+vuFBUukcDT4veXAFKDkJsBL4KgREO2PZ52k0Y5n2VPlDk8PC.3l+nfWfskGBhiw9XWQW+3dh3q1KyS1zIdf127WJ.lK2ZxmnzU1I2Ytlr4wV588kCFlgT4eI6ivQBwKaQ37VWv6E48sq1K6Wx41.+IIA7dNckv+4GthnpnVWeB8mpC3zVJ8TnRwG8a9IJppaHJIisEPsCQTF7kNw0kaJ+WG6qmrqiMNSF6DZjvoEhqGNsTbO1sUjTbKmNCefpfyqGm+YpB6r4wcbRLPt0XG8NYMXFKBq1YfkOzwNmSj6emk9Fuixby6nULpKCOtpCNn3Ptn73rLAp5sAbP7P4EMoGdTBnve2PRTihiyMu+594krIST2kLQfpg5ZapoXsSemCcaD2Meu6M+jNiZXYdk6FZdj4EX9gwmJ07DzjEkuSsUq8mdaGMhshRecUQzqvbJuO7KToRLzz4M0nibzmJdh7A5F8r4e1s760bK4CgwjF1deJQnC7iOGFnxSoaoq22IDyT.o0QhlxjbpsOv.fEzWEAm0MvIaB5JWcfIXv1AQwl3QKhPdITeNa0JS7IbK5mSSJ1Y34YBbbGSl1HRh6JZQx9KgYqHBV5pfcIEKGZNUZp2pyoRWH40jKhwnmXWC88seMh3SjNtDft0voE97raidlim4DZO95AK7se2tNmfin6ivXzmxiQepLF8YownOUGi9TaL5S8g1GjOG1NXilxAEzZchk5btKGjaJl+eWKiS9A

Christoph Hart

I've looked a bit at the clock_ramp code an there is a slight inaccuracy where it takes the last ramp value when trying to figure out the modulation value, so I changed it to use the mid value.

But the modulation inaccuracy is defined by the block size of the processing context - every block a single value is sent out and this introduces some inaccuracy within the block processing size - that's how scriptnode works and it's your responsibility to choose a block size that matches your requirements.

If you choose the lowest available block size with a fix8_block the modulation with the latest fix becomes pretty much sample-perfect.

And yes I've slapped a cable_table between the clock ramp and the add node so there's definitely no issue with this particular node

lalalandsynth

@Christoph-Hart Ok, will try this.

is this consistent between buffer settings ?
Does this get rid of the starting bump ?

Christoph Hart

Yes (at least for the part of the signal path that I've tested), not sure what you're doing afterwards
The starting bump is created by the stock LFO module right? I was only referring to the clock_ramp node.

lalalandsynth

@Christoph-Hart

Not doing too much afterwards and results were the same when I bypassed all that.
Starting bump was also caused by the Scriptnode, although I will test it again.

Is your testing done via the add to signal from the clockramp or is it audio through a gain module ?
My test was Audio on a track in reaper through Hise plugin exported as FX.
Scriptnode table controlling a gain module.

Christoph Hart

@lalalandsynth well the gain is smoothed so there‘s your source for the bump…

lalalandsynth

@Christoph-Hart I see, that will not cause a problem for me in this case as I am using this for cc output , no bump there.

Although if used for "sidechain" style volume, or as a send envelope into an fx this would cause a problem. Is there a way to get the table to operate on gain without any smoothing , or at least with settable smoothing, don´t need that much to get rid of clicks.

Also a bit strange that the "tail" shows up in the beginning, It would make sense when it loops.

Christoph Hart

settable smoothing

There's literally a Smoothing parameter on the gain node :)

lalalandsynth

@Christoph-Hart Indeed , but it was set for no smoothing.
Unless I messed up my test? I will check when I get back to the studio.

Christoph Hart

If you get away with it I would recommend using the math.mul node instead of the gain node, it's a bit faster and doesn't require a db->linear value conversion on each modulation update.

lalalandsynth

@Christoph-Hart There are still some problems.

Latest build.
Testing with 8 block, buffer set to 128 there are differences between Synced and Continuous.
Synced is earlier , 3.1 ms

There is also a lot of jitter on both.

Here is a demonstration of synced jitter. (recorded in a loop in reaper, switching between takes)
Jitter Synced.gif

Here is a demonstration of Continuous jitter. (recorded in a loop in reaper, switching between takes) Maybe its not jitter as it seems to be earlier and earlier rather then just moving about?
Jitter Continuous.gif

It also looks like the "Jitter" or "earlyness" is worse with a higher buffer.
512 Buffer and it jumps from 127 samples to 433 in the next take.
Jitter Buffer.gif

As opposed to 16 buffer where it moves from 55 to 72 samples.
16 buffer.gif

BTW: I did indeed have some smoothing on the gain module in my previous examples. ;)

lalalandsynth

Here is my setup , basically for this test though I am just sending a clock ramp to a cable table and from there to a gain module (no smoothing this time ;) )

Cable table latency/sync issue.

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