A better Arp

[MikeB]

@Lindon If the Arp didn't react to NoteOff commands by having its own start/stop button, I wouldn't have to write my own sequencer.

And no not every VST drum plugin uses an arp - probably none as you say - but every VST I have (Atlas, XO, div Kontakt Drums, Superior Drummer etc) don't stop on preset change - that's what I'd like.

And with the HISE arp you can conjure up beautiful polyrythms.

[Lindon]

@MikeB - you can do everything you are doing with the arp with your own sequencer.

There may be a clue in the info. that no drum machine is using an arp....

[MikeB]

@Lindon You don't understand me - if I could write my own sequencer, I would - but unfortunately I'm a graphic designer, not a programmer.
So I tend to approach things visually. That may not be a problem for you - but it is for me. And that's why a visually available arp is very helpful to me. If it didn't have this one shortcoming.

I hope Christoph will find a way here.

[d.healey]

Can't you just ignore the note off?

[MikeB]

@d-healey David - If YOU don't know that - how should I, the dummy, know it?

[Natan]

This post is deleted!

[Natan]

Plugin produces MIDI out @Christoph-Hart Legend, Where is this FLAG located on Projucer?
@d-healey Any idea Sir?

[MikeB]

@Christoph-Hart Is there a possibility that the Arp gets a NoteOn/Off independent start/stop button?

[d.healey]

@MikeB What would happen when you press the on button without a note?

[MikeB]

@d-healey said in A better Arp:

@MikeB What would happen when you press the on button without a note?

The problem with the Arp is:

If you want to use it as a sequencer for drum oneshots.

The Arp is currently started by a NoteOn and then runs.

With a drum VST (Atlas, XO, Superior Drummer and many others) the Arp/sequencer is not started by a NoteOn but by clicking on the Play button in the VST or DAW.

Then it runs in the set parameters BPM (int or ext.).

If the user now changes the preset in the drum VST, the arp/sequencer continues to run. It does not stop until Stop is clicked in the VST or DAW.

So I can change the preset while the arp is running.

However, the HISE Arp stops when the preset is changed - because it receives a NoteOff command.

A Start/Stop button and note numbers that work independently of a NoteOn/Off command could work around this.

The ARP could start and continue to run when changing presets until Stop is clicked in the Arp - or Stop is clicked in the DAW.

[ulrik]

@Christoph-Hart It's all about the arp stopping when the preset browser send out the All Notes Off message as I understand.

Is there some sort of function/filtering, so that the arp will not receive the AllNotesOff message and can continue to run?

[d.healey]

@MikeB But an arp and a sequencer are not the same thing.

An arp triggers the notes you are holding in a pattern.

A sequencer plays a defined set of notes.

The MIDI player is a sequencer so would seem best suited for your purpose.

[MikeB]

@d-healey said in A better Arp:

@MikeB But an arp and a sequencer are not the same thing.

An arp triggers the notes you are holding in a pattern.

A sequencer plays a defined set of notes.

The MIDI player is a sequencer so would seem best suited for your purpose.

Please David - I am 63 years old and have been making music for 50 years and with a computer for 30 years. I know what an Arp, a sequencer and a MidiPlayer is.

But HISE only provides an Arp and a MidiPlayer.

The Midi Player is not suitable for my purposes - and it has exactly the same problem. It stops when changing presets.

The player expects prefabricated midi files - in my drum project, the user can - or should - change pitch, velocity, length, etc. via the midi player. By using the Random button.

Last year, I dealt intensively with the MidiPlayer and found it unusable for my purposes.

The HISE Arp has an ingenious feature - which no one here recognises, doesn't want to see? I don't know.

It only has to keep running when changing presets.
A problem that has been addressed here since last August and has not been solved since then.

The NoteOff command for preset changes is absolutely necessary for notes played via the keyboard. Otherwise midi hangs and echo flags occur.

However, a drum machine is not played via the keyboard but is started and runs and runs and runs.
Until I click Stop.

That's exactly what I want for the Arp.

[Christoph Hart]

@MikeB You can easily script that behavior (you could even roll your own dumbed-down arpeggiator that doesn't care about note lengths / pitch information and just reacts on a start / stop command. It's all there, just use the timer callback and play notes in there whose velocities you can fetch from a SliderPack.

I'm hesitant to extend the arpeggiator with the changes you suggested because the fact that you're working against the limitations of this module for so long time despite the fact that nobody else is having a similar issue with the arpeggiator looks like you're just using the wrong tool for the job (and as I've stated multiple times, the MIDI player is capable of powering a drum sequencer where you can make edits).

[MikeB]

@Christoph-Hart Last year in August I asked here in the forum whether it would be possible to bypass the NotOff command when changing presets via script.

The answer was - no - not possible. Then I wrote you a PM in which you answered that you were working on a possibility.

A few months later you say you don't know if it's possible.

Now you say that the behaviour can be easily scripted?

There is no example of it.

And the fact that no one uses the Arp here - or exploits its potential is not really a criterion. Someone has to be the first - and if I get my PlugIn done - everyone will say - great you can do that with 4 Arps. Wow :-)

And even David says (and shows it by a missing video) that he doesn't know much about the Arp and doesn't use it.

I don't expect you to rebuild the Arp - a simple snippet or a description of how to get around the NoteOff problem when changing presets would make me very happy.

The Arp as it is at the moment covers 99% of my needs for my project.

Building my own via script without sufficient programming knowledge will surely age me 5 years - in 2 weeks.

[d.healey]

@MikeB I've used the arp in a commercial project - it doesn't really require a video though. I think Christoph was suggesting you script your own arp - I know you said you're not a scripter.

[MikeB]

@d-healey

This is my entry from last year.
Since then I have been looking for a solution to this problem.
Everyone here says no problem and no one has a concrete solution or even a promising approach.

It's no use telling a newcomer: why don't you program a sequencer or an arp yourself?

https://forum.hise.audio/topic/4567/arp-stopp-on-preset-change?_=1662626737608

[d.healey]

@MikeB

It's no use telling a newcomer: why don't you program a sequencer or an arp yourself?

I wouldn't tell a newcomer to write an arp, I'd tell them to start with something simpler and work their way up to it.

Please David - I am 63 years old and have been making music for 50 years and with a computer for 30 years. I know what an Arp, a sequencer and a MidiPlayer is.

You seem to be using the terms arp and sequencer interchangeably so I was trying to clarify the differences.

There are two requests here:

You want an on/off button for the arp. Can you explain how this works from the user's point of view because I don't really understand. The arp responds to MIDI on/off, so if there is no MIDI what will an on/off button do?

You want the arp to continue playing when changing presets. This seems like a reasonable idea to me.

@Christoph-Hart If/when you're making some modifications to the arp - the hold button doesn't work correctly, when it's turned off the arp continues to hold on the next new note. Also I always see these Hell breaks loose if you kill real events artificially! messages in the console when using the arp.

[ulrik]

@MikeB I managed to keep the arp running (well not really, but restart), when you change presets with the preset bowser.
I've written some issues it contains, inside the code.

1. It will restart from the beginning so if you change preset at position 7, it will restart at first slider.

Is there a way to start the arp at a specific position @Christoph-Hart ?

2. The restart have to be made right after the sent AllNotesOff message so I used a timer, and I tried different timer values and it work with the current delay of 60ms, if it's set lower it will interfere with the noteoff message. So you'll get a delay

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[MikeB]

@d-healey said in A better Arp:

@MikeB

You seem to be using the terms arp and sequencer interchangeably so I was trying to clarify the differences.

There are two requests here:

You want an on/off button for the arp. Can you explain how this works from the user's point of view because I don't really understand. The arp responds to MIDI on/off, so if there is no MIDI what will an on/off button do?

You want the arp to continue playing when changing presets. This seems like a reasonable idea to me.

@Christoph-Hart If/when you're making some modifications to the arp - the hold button doesn't work correctly, when it's turned off the arp continues to hold on the next new note. Also I always see these Hell breaks loose if you kill real events artificially! messages in the console when using the arp.

No - I already understood that - but unfortunately HISE doesn't have a sequencer apart from the one I made a year ago - which isn't a real sequencer either.

https://forum.hise.audio/topic/4579/the-hise-16-step-sequencer?_=1662636138581

The HISE Arp is actually ingenious and can do more than it is given credit for.
And that's how I want to use it.

As I said, I have been working with VSTs for many years and am also subject to a G.A.S.

which puts me in a position to own and judge hundreds of plug-ins. I actually use maybe 20 - but they are really good.

But one thing has always been missing over the years. I would now like to build one myself with HISE. With my modest knowledge of Javascript and the support of the HISE community.

Let's get back to the problem:
It's not a missing start/stop button - I've had that in since last year - no, the problem is that the "ARP" and "Midi Player" stop when a preset is changed.
Which it shouldn't as a drum VST - as I said, none of them do.

I will post a video at the weekend on how DRUM-VST behaves in a DAW - maybe it will become clearer then.

However, Ulrik has already solved the problem - see below - at least it seems so. If it is now guaranteed that the arp runs synchronously and does not generate dropouts which would of course be unusable with a running drum VST, that would be the solution to all my HISE problems for the time being :-)

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