Step modulator ?

[lalalandsynth]

Some info, seems its not possible at this point unless messing with the c++ code ?
As far as I can tell .

Expanded AudioPlayHead functionality

@d-healey The subclass is currently commented out in HISE source code, and when i remove the comment, it doesn't compile

Forum (forum.hise.audio)

The things we all want to see in HISE 3.0

Hey @dustbro & @ulrik, I just attempted to rebuild HISE after uncommenting some playhead features in the MainController.cpp but got the following error: "Use...

Forum (forum.hise.audio)

[lalalandsynth]

Not having this track playhead position could very quickly turn into a mess , both when playing a synth and also if you would want to render a small part of a bar for example and it sounds different then when rendering the whole bar.

I do part rendering all the time and would be very surprised if it did not track playhead when using a synth.

[Lindon]

@lalalandsynth said in Step modulator ?:

Not having this track playhead position could very quickly turn into a mess , both when playing a synth and also if you would want to render a small part of a bar for example and it sounds different then when rendering the whole bar.

I do part rendering all the time and would be very surprised if it did not track playhead when using a synth.

Im not sure I understand what your problem is... I cant think of ANY hardware synth that does this...or soft synth come to that...

Lets pick a modulator (an LFO)

You can either have it free running or retrigger on note... how do you want it to "sync" with song position(playhead)?

• it should know its own cycle length and divide that into the song position and work out any "remainder" and offset itself against this calculated value - seems wildly complex to me...and full of unwanted glitch potential

• or know the playhead position and "wait" for the playhead to reach some defined point (say next bar) before it starts? So any played note wouldn't therefore have its modulator happening until some indeterminate point in the future? So it would "sound different" for every different part bar you are playing no?

OR do I not understand what you mean?

[Christoph Hart]

If it‘s used in a synth the timing will be synched by the note ons, but for effects it might indeed be useful to have it synced to the play position.

[lalalandsynth]

Its very useful , like in this plug in I made that is an envelope generator.
Say I start playing a quarter note into the bar , I would need it to start playing the envelope from there.

Take a look at any synth like Serum , all those modulators are synced to the playhead.
Step Lfo and Custom LFO would be candidates for this for sure, although I would like to be able to have a synced modulator for anything if I needed to.
Essential for sidechain style volume or filter modulation and in fact I can think of a lot of use cases for this.

[lalalandsynth]

This is a pretty essential function in Serum for example.
Also like this in Massive and other synths.

[lalalandsynth]

@Christoph-Hart said in Step modulator ?:

If it‘s used in a synth the timing will be synched by the note ons, but for effects it might indeed be useful to have it synced to the play position.

Its also useful in Synths as demonstrated by that Serum example, host clock synced modulators are VERY useful ;)
Without that option, this would not be possible.
Host clock synced LFO Positive going saw controls the WT pos .

[yall]

@Christoph-Hart
you think this is achievable on hise? I think it will unlock a lot of possibilities and that would solve my problem ^^

[Lindon]

@lalalandsynth so I press play on the DAW and start "noodling" on Serum - and the notes sounds different(cause they are using different parts of the wavetable) depending on where in the bar I press a note?

-- how odd, how frustrating....I can see users HATING this.

[lalalandsynth]

@Lindon
Have you used Serum or Massive ? Serum is one of the best selling synths these days and has been for some time.
You can choose if you retrigger or not , so ...its a choice.
I would say that most synths should have this feature , and many do.

What would be more frustrating is ,say you have it move through the wavetable in one bar , and any time you dont start at the beginning of the bar you dont hear it as it will be when you start from the bar....I would HATE that . ;)

Its in fact absolutely essential as you can play another note as it travels through the wavetable without retriggering its placement in the wavetable....crucial, as well as for all kinds of modulation., filter etc etc.
Its a HUGE feature.

Also , any kind of envelope fx in modern EDM style synths and FX have this feature , you might not need or like it ...but , its here to stay :)

Also, LFO tool for example from Xfer would be useless without this.

[Lindon]

@lalalandsynth said in Step modulator ?:

@Lindon
Have you used Serum or Massive ?

I have Massive and Massive X.

[lalalandsynth]

@Lindon Then you must have encountered this feature.
I personally have made four plugins so far that would not work without this , so quite essential for modern plugins in my opinion. In fact , I would say its a basic requirement.
I was planning to remake these plugins in Hise but without this its not possible.

Same thing.

[lalalandsynth]

I am a bit surprised if you dont see the value in this , like in the Serum example .

Say you have a kick on each 1/4 note and the synth is travelling through the wavetable for one bar , now if you stop and start playing on the second kick , it will start at the offset point in the wavetable sounding the same as if you would have started from the beginning. Anything else would be weird , unless you specifically wanted it to.

[Lindon]

@lalalandsynth said in Step modulator ?:

I am a bit surprised if you dont see the value in this , like in the Serum example .

Say you have a kick on each 1/4 note and the synth is travelling through the wavetable for one bar , now if you stop and start playing on the second kick , it will start at the offset point in the wavetable sounding the same as if you would have started from the beginning. Anything else would be weird , unless you specifically wanted it to.

Yes I understand what the feature is - I just think the exact opposite is true too. I play the first note of a one-bar phrase on the first beat of the first bar... and I get one sound, I play slightly late in the second bar (like you know groove and all that) and I get a different sound...

I appreciate that certain genres of dance music have no groove at all...but the rest of the world - not so much. Which thinking about it is probably why Massive and Serum (and the like) are not so popular outside those genres

[lalalandsynth]

@Lindon said in Step modulator ?:

I just think the exact opposite is true too. I play the first note of a one-bar phrase on the first beat of the first bar... and I get one sound, I play slightly late in the second bar (like you know groove and all that) and I get a different sound...

You can do that too.

But syncing to host clock is pretty basic stuff for plugins these days, Serum style modulation is just one small example.
Not having that option is a big issue for me, but I have pretty much made that clear. :)

[Christoph Hart]

I appreciate that certain genres of dance music have no groove at all...but the rest of the world - not so much. Which thinking about it is probably why Massive and Serum (and the like) are not so popular outside those genres

That‘s a fair point but a framework for virtual instruments should make this assumption and offer both options.

However I am being used to start the playback on the bar start and if I don‘t I am used to tempo-synced stuff to behave a bit weird (if you trigger an arpeggiator it will also go off beat).

[Lindon]

@Christoph-Hart said in Step modulator ?:

That‘s a fair point but a framework for virtual instruments should make this assumption and offer both options.

Oh for sure, the more options the better I say - as long as it doesn't get in the way of the send bus FX implementation

-- no actually seriously - I see its something some people will want - but its not I think (sing out if you disagree everyone) the top of the list of things I'd like to see in HISE 3.0...nice (for some genres), sure; essential? my vote is not so much..

[lalalandsynth]

@Christoph-Hart said in Step modulator ?:

That‘s a fair point but a framework for virtual instruments should make this assumption and offer both options.

Most definitely. ;)
And my vote goes for essential.

Here are 4 of my plugins that rely on this feature ;)

[lalalandsynth]

@Christoph-Hart
And just to beat a dead horse once more ;)
At this point i expect plugins to hold sync at all times and I thought this was a bug.
Btw , absolutely love PercX , super creative.

[Christoph Hart]

Yeah, we've actually about to ship an update with a proper drag to DAW midi function. There's also a new sync to DAW mode which takes the playback position into account, but if you trigger it with MIDI notes there's nothing you can do about it because the sync is the note-on message (otherwise you could not start the pattern in the middle of a bar).