Modulation intensity modes (bipolar, scale, add?)

[oskarsh]

Hey! What are your thoughts on the modulation intensity modes?

Currently, there are two types: Bipolar Mode and Scale Mode.

@Christoph-Hart, would it be possible to add an Add/Subtract Mode to the Modulation Matrix? The idea is to have:

•	An Add Mode that increases the modulation from the current parameter value.
•	A Subtract Mode that starts at the current knob value and reduces from there.

The modulation intensity would then control the range of these adjustments.

For instance, Scale Mode is not ideal when setting a table envelope on a filter to create a pluck sound, as it limits flexibility.

[oskarsh]

@Christoph-Hart is there a chance you can take a look at this. This would enable proper modulation modes.

[AxiomCrux]

@Christoph-Hart im curious about this as well, I am about to try and impliment something like this so that when the shift key is held or a modwheel assign switch is toggled on the intensity of the modwheel influence for each knob and slider in my design can be set by dragging just like adjusting the knob value,

and for the knob look and feel I was planning to add something like the image in this post, with indicators for the modulation showing the amount and direction of influence, with another tick to show the active value as it changes

[DanH]

@AxiomCrux the ModMatrix is going through a bit of an overhaul at the moment so hopefully we will have some more options soon :)

[Straticah]

@DanH

[AxiomCrux]

@DanH @oskarsh I am curious about the current image at the top, is this from a snippet or just a mockup of an idea? Where is this from?

and you mentioned there are currently two modes, bipolar and scale mode, where can I find out more about the current solution?

[oskarsh]

@AxiomCrux the image is made in Figma. You can recreate in HISE if you draw the mod value you will see the same.

The ones with the star should be added to HISE IMO.

You can check the mod matrix tutorial. The best way to find out is to play with the system and try :)

[AxiomCrux]

@oskarsh I wonder why it would be beneficial to have separate modes for add and subtract modulation?

Wouldn't it be better / more flexible to use math on the modulation signal to achieve these two modes on the right instead of a separate mode?

Having to flip between different modes seems alot more complicated, I was imagining something more like what vital/serum do where you have the knob value that you have set and then assigning modulation around that based on the nature of the input, if its a bipolar LFO it would go up and down around the current knob value based on a modulation scaler,

And if you want the LFO to only be additive, you would add a scale and offset to the LFO itself so that it doesn't have negative values, or if you want it to subtract, you would use a negative scale value.

Flipping between 4 different modes seems less intuitive, I've not seen anything that uses that strategy in the wild. Even Ableton modulation only has bipolar and additive, and if you want to subtract from the current value, you use additive and set the influence to a negative value

[Christoph Hart]

I‘m currently locked in on three modes:

• scale multiplies the value with the intensity defining how much the signal
• unipolar adds or subtracts the modulation from the current value
• bipolar adds or subtracts the value with the center around the current value.

The multiplication always comes first.

[AxiomCrux]

@Christoph-Hart said in Modulation intensity modes (bipolar, scale, add?):

I‘m currently locked in on three modes:

• scale multiplies the value by the intensity, defining how much the signal
• unipolar adds or subtracts the modulation from the current value
• bipolar adds or subtracts the value with the center around the current value.

The multiplication always comes first.

Wouldn't you want scaling on the unipolar and bipolar modes? Is scaling a mode? It seems more like a multiplier?

knobValue + LFO * modulationIntensity

where the LFO itself currently has bipolar and additive modes, no?

Either way, I would love to help in figuring out a simple, clean, contemporary drag-and-drop modulation assignment as seen in Vital and Serum (I find these to be the fastest and most intuitive way to assign complex modulation).

Maybe options for modifier key + drag sets modulation intensity
knob with concentric arcs for visually setting the scale intensity range, and current modulated value similar to the image at the top of the post.

I am also a huge fan of "Morph / Macro assign methodology," where a switch can be flipped "ON" to enable setting the influence of a modwheel or a macro control by simply moving any parameter while the macro/morph assign is true.

The nord modular uses a method like that and it gets very powerful and fantastic for honing in on refined sound design presets as you can sculpt the main sound, then adjust the knob or modwheel etc to its top value and turn every knob you like in any direction and they will all shift along with the macro/morph controller

[Christoph Hart]

@AxiomCrux said in Modulation intensity modes (bipolar, scale, add?):

knobValue + LFO * modulationIntensity

That's unipolar. Scaling is:

(1.0 - intensity) + intensity * knobValue

and is the best modulation mode for gain modulation, otherwise you would always have to turn the volume down, then crank up the intensity of the envelope to the value you want.

I would love to help in figuring out a simple, clean, contemporary drag-and-drop modulation assignment as seen in Vital and Serum

Yup, that's currently being implemented. I'm also doing a reference implementation as proper starting point.

[griffinboy]

@Christoph-Hart

Amazing indeed, thank you