Simplest way to get single-cycle waveforms into the wavetable?
-
AhoI! Been playing around with the wavetable synth a lot
but I can't seem to get my single cycle waveforms into it.
The Wavetable Creator tool is horribly broken and seems to do more of a resynthesis that sounds nothing like the initial waveform
so how would I go about importing a simple wav file with one cycle?I have multiple one cycle wavs (high/middle/low) I'd love to blend/morph depending on the key as this is supposed to represent an old analog synth whose shape changes quite a bit the higher the not gets.
i recon the wavs all have to be brought to the same length/samples or whatnot with an external tool?
I'd appreciate any help. had no luck so far importing just a single one of them
-
to clarify the single cycle wav file i tried this with is exactly 256 samples, signed 24bit PCM
according to audacityhttps://instagram.com/morphoice - 80s inspired Synthwave Music, Arcade & Gameboy homebrew!
-
even If I make a wav with exactly 1468 samples (C0) and drop it on C0 it doesnt work and gives me the pitch detection failure error
https://instagram.com/morphoice - 80s inspired Synthwave Music, Arcade & Gameboy homebrew!
-
@Morphoice stitch them together so that they are 768 samples long (3x256), create a sample map where you map this out over the entire keyboard (the root note doesn't matter), then use the Resample mode (if you want to be safe select 256 at the Source Length selector) and it should create a wavetable bank with 3 wavetables per note that you can morph with the table index modulator.
I would recommend creating more than 3 wavetables though as this will not sound very convincing if you try to capture an analogue synth - you can use up to 128 tables to morph between.
-
@Christoph-Hart hm, 256 won't cover the detail in the lower notes though...
what do you mean by stitch them together? you mean so all the different waveforms are in one wav file? I'll give it a try with a bigger size though...https://instagram.com/morphoice - 80s inspired Synthwave Music, Arcade & Gameboy homebrew!
-
@Morphoice yup, it then splits it up based on the source length you provided.
You can use bigger table lengths than 256, it was just the number you suggested - everything up to 2048 is fine (and it will resample and antialias the wavetables for higher octaves in the conversion stage).
-
By the way, Does HISE's Wavetable synthesizer has any use other than "simple waveforms"?
When I try to convert a very basic supersaw sample, even I try other re-synthesis method options, I get very shitty sounds for all of them. I am not even saying a complex Dubstep growl bass sample!
Am I missing something here, or is this wavetable synth only valid for basic cycles like saw, square, or sounds close to them?
If so, it's very bad and I think it's a feature added just to say the "wavetable synth" label on it. It is useless.
-
@Christoph-Hart superb thank you. tried it with a single wave and it worked fine, now it'll be some work to get all 128 sampled and extracted
-
@Steve-Mohican a supersaw isnt exactly predestined for wavetables. there's a lot of movement from the detuned suboscillators. but you should be able to make it the same way Christoph described and then move over the table index to get the movement. It's probably easier to unison and detune some sawtooth oscillators
https://instagram.com/morphoice - 80s inspired Synthwave Music, Arcade & Gameboy homebrew!
-
The resample mode should give you the ability to create every wavetable sound you want, but the resynthesis is indeed limited to converting organic samples into wavetables which assumes a natural harmonic structure.
-
The resample mode is not working here. Sample duration is 3 seconds.
ERROR: Sample length is not multiple of cycle size. You probably need to use a resynthesis mode instead. -
@Morphoice The topic is not a supersaw sound. If HISE Wavetable synth is far below the capabilities of even a freebie VITAL, then this calls for questioning.
More capacity is to be expected from a synth that calls itself Wavetable in 2024. I've been waiting for a looong time for this, but....
-
@Steve-Mohican Read what the error says. I can't take anyone seriously complaining about the quality of the synthesis if you even can't follow the instructions that you just posted. The fact that your measure of time is seconds and not samples shows that you haven't understand how to use it.
- If you have an existing set of wavetables that you just need to convert into HISE's own format, then use Resample. This requires the wavetables to be in a power-of-two cycle length, but every single wavetable I imported so far fulfilled this requirement. If you want to modulate the table index, then you need to make sure that all wavetable cycles are stitched together to a big wave file that is loaded as samplemap.
- If you have a sample set of recorded samples of an organic instrument (eg. a trumpet or a clarinet), where you want to extract the harmonic structure in order to build a dynamically playable "real" instrument, use the resynthesis mode. This applies Loris & other resampling algorithms and will FFT your samples and try to extract the gain table of the harmonics over time which will definitely result in a bad sound quality if you do this with highly distorted & inharmonic content like FM wavetables & growl stuff.
I have no intentions of defending the UX of that monster of a dialog, but once you get past that, the synthesis works fine. Is it the absolute best in terms of sound quality and can you just wrap a GUI around it and advertise it as new Serum? No, but it's definitely good enough as a sound generator for a hybrid synth.
Also, VITAL is not a freebie. It's a commercial product that happens to have a free edition.
-
@Christoph-Hart just out of interest as an aspiring developer, aside from features etc whats the magic behind SERUM being better at wavetable synthesis sound-quality wise? do they use some secret sort of interpolation or resynthesis or whatever they do internally? or did you just refer to the features
-
@Steve-Mohican supersaws are kinda hard to replicate in a wavetable. I assume you mean a supersaw to be is a stack of multiple saw voices detuned against each other with stereo spread and panning. Getting that into a wavetable is going to be hard even if you're in Serum or Vital. Reason being, most wavetable synths wavetable osc are mono. Serum and vital are two prime examples. You need to also constantly modulate and move thru the table to replicate the detuning.
The Hise wavetable module works best if you design wavetables in other wavetable designing tools like Serum WT editor, Vital, SA Node etc. Those can spit out samples with interpolation that make morphing between frames smoother in Hise in my experience.
EDIT: Here is a supersaw wavetable file for Hise.
-
@Morphoice Duda spent a good amount of dev time and $$$ on the dsp behind how Serum crunches numbers in the oscillators. If memory serves they use SSE2 instructions to allow for cpu efficient yet really clean/stable oscillators (clean being the lack of artifacts.)
-
@Christoph-Hart Once you learn how to use the WT conversion tool, it is quite powerful! I think you did a great job with it. I'm able to use it to make great sounding instrument tables, synth tables etc.
For everyone complaining that it only spits out nasty fm'y tones, see exhibit A, a video of various types of good sounding wavetables in Hise. Be gentle, I am a novice keyboard player.
Christoph, would you ever consider adding a phase random control for the WT module in Hise? The waveform generator doesn't have that either. It would be a really nice synthesis feature to have in Hise for at least one of the synth based modules.
-
@ally Don't forget that you can trim that voice count to reduce the memory overhead!
