Sample not triggered if MIDI overlaps

Christoph Hart

BTW, a hint about the issue would be just adding Console.print(Message.getNoteNumber()); into the onNoteOn callback to see whether the second overlapping MIDI event reaches the scripting engine or if the problem lies before this (either the DAW itself or the way how HISE processes and prepares these messages).

Dan Korneff

@Christoph-Hart @d-healey Illegal operation in audio thread is being caused by the timer interval.
When Synth.startTimer(); is set to anything less than 1, I get the error.

Dan Korneff

@Christoph-Hart said in Sample not triggered if MIDI overlaps:

Console.print(Message.getNoteNumber());

hmm,.... that sounds way too logical. :grinning_cat_face_with_smiling_eyes:
Great idea! the overlapping midi note doesn't make it to the scripting engine. :(

Christoph Hart

And you can confirm that this is not a problem with other plugins?

Can you test what happens if you overlap notes with different MIDI channels?

Dan Korneff

@Christoph-Hart This is for a drum sampler. I can confirm that overlapping notes do trigger samples in SSD, Superior Drummer, Addictive drums, and Groove Agent.

Dan Korneff

@Christoph-Hart said in Sample not triggered if MIDI overlaps:

Can you test what happens if you overlap notes with different MIDI channels?

Ok... changing the midi channel for an overlapped note will trigger the sampler.

Dan Korneff

so what does this mean??

Christoph Hart

HISE processes incoming MIDI messages and creates the event IDs, I suspect there is something fishy going on in this logic.

So just to make sure we use the same conditions:

HISE 2.0.0 (the app, not compiled plugins). Also is this behaviour new (=> is it not occurring with HISE 1.6.0 or earlier?)
any DAW / OS
happens with the minimal example here:

HiseSnippet 743.3oc6W0saSCCE1osFXhsNPBw04E.oF13m6V+eah0QUSY.WMYbNq0hD6PhSgdKOY7HvixdC.6jrkDsntlKXrIHWkym8I4yemexIiCDTHLTDfL1X5Re.YrI1dIWNu2bBiiNrOxnIdDITBAlIPcW5SBCAGjgQ880.Faz.Eec9dcItDNExfPnSDLJbDyiIyPG29MLW2gDGXJyK2t2s8gTAumvUDo3ScbKjOg9YxL3Xhda0vHi6MvgIEA1RhDBQFM5JbVZOW7Udx9OgEx9jKnMrP1pGTB7Pgqilw56Q8lybcFew4NDgLviyTg5IpvSviXNrKwyTiGEufYlG40CiZqhdV4oWqRomUIzCkicMRXmhDBmHWhrHyzgizEXhhQpC4RfGxjKyGt9qR2GiGyjz4ky2ZkvWUf5OMeSC9agGb1Y.UlQ1F3ge3lMR2LgJODay3PbEYLQdZrs46IK.y8ANDnEUqUTT9y0snzesKJeKUpd8SCH7PeQXgGrM3wlJ3ZEIC7cgvv.3KSzQ4738DjfRW578FpNjk5iMQFEDmtzwSDwkEROpu1wj7MGJV0ja+kzonw+6TTEo8Z56Zjiuamv26i6bPe6IocHhu2b.eA3J7gho4iDbg+bAmQymCLAjArYyff7ruziTGoT8wkdQAKJjA2GnjkWAMYyWE4HPQs7vGnNwY16zN9wcIPqu21NJTVn.8i+XB3BjvBkbCnBU3AVUHn95EBtlO2spzjsvIGRy3FB2t+ZRyK3ZRD41MY2DGmVbWPW2FmlvdmPXahSqktKHsqb.n5+aN.zDQjjwmMhn5h+MUmpii7rUycPAES3bvU8hvF0zyNjX2RamL3A2I13WpqzEsz1FoKZcwh2HuCOBMPbpZtIYfvU2y8AwHpyMO9WY1P8OUJaSKzBhaTpJ4oFW3TJUK1OSoNk6wyqrG6TYO1sxd7hJ6wKqrGupxd75U3gd1rNQRgWRomBX7f9DIQkaOfSTYtwY4neCPOMjSO

It's weird that I can't replicate this because this is nothing that is depending on the DAW or OS.

Dan Korneff

@Christoph-Hart I've been experiencing the audio dropout effects for about a year now. I assume it's related and has been happening on all versions.
What's the easiest way to download pre 1.6 to test?
I'm goin to check the 2.0 app on all the Mac + PC combinations I have available here now.

Dan Korneff

Overlapping example confirmed not working on:

macOS 10.13.6
Reaper 5.961
HISE 2.0 AU crashes GarageBand on load

windows 10
Reaper 5.961
Cubase 9.5.41

Dan Korneff

Hey guys. I need a little help writing a script to get around this issue.
I'm trying to send a noteOff command directly after a noteOn is triggered.

Here's what I'm doing:

function onNoteOn()
{
	noteID = Message.getEventId();
	Synth.noteOffByEventId(noteID);
}

In the console I'm getting an error:

Script Processor1:! onNoteOn() - Line 3, column 31: Illegal operation in audio thread: String creation

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Dan Korneff

This post is deleted!

Dan Korneff

@Christoph-Hart said in Sample not triggered if MIDI overlaps:

HISE processes incoming MIDI messages and creates the event IDs, I suspect there is something fishy going on in this logic.

@Christoph-Hart This is correct.
I've made a more simple example that contains only:

function onNoteOn()
{
    Console.print("on");
}

and using this midi file with an overlapping note:
midi tes.MID

If you overlap midi events of the same note and same channel, the 2nd noteOn command doesn't even make it into the Main Container.
If you look at this example, the midi event contains 4 midi notes, but only 3 make it into HISE.

Dan Korneff

Chatted with some code slingers the other day who pointed me to here:
Screen Shot 2019-01-17 at 5.45.39 AM.png

Christoph Hart

The synthesiser class in JUCE is only partly relevant, I think the culprit is the way I am generating event IDs from the MIDI input. The problem is that there is no "correct" solution, as soon as MIDI notes with the same channel and note number overlap, things get into undefined territory.

Currently I have only a single slot per note number, the first way would be to change that to a FIFO queue, but there are performance implications that have to be evaluated against the edge case of people not using their piano roll correctly :)

Dan Korneff

I've just started going thru all of the JUCE tutorials. Very interesting stuff. Also thumbing thru the HISE code to learn how you're handling these situations. It's all over my head at the moment, but I'm interested to see the solution.

@Christoph-Hart said in Sample not triggered if MIDI overlaps:

there are performance implications that have to be evaluated against the edge case of people not using their piano roll correctly

man... I think all of my beta testers are the "edge case". :face_with_tears_of_joy: They draw in midi for basic drum beats, then drop a midi note right on top of another note to create their flams. Every. Single. One.

@Christoph-Hart said in Sample not triggered if MIDI overlaps:

as soon as MIDI notes with the same channel and note number overlap, things get into undefined territory.

I can definitely understand this issue. Once there is an overlap, how does the buffer determine which noteOn/noteOff belongs to which event ID.

Christoph Hart

how does the buffer determine which noteOn/noteOff belongs to which event ID.

Well, FIFO means First in First out, so the earlier note would automatically get the note off. The other model would be a LIFO (Last in, first out" stack), but I think the result would be super weird.

They draw in midi for basic drum beats, then drop a midi note right on top of another note to create their flams. Every. Single. One.

It will probably come down to a preprocessor definition that customizes this behaviour on a per project basis. This problem is more apparent on drum based projects, because you don't need your super VA style Saw synth to flam :)

rzrsharpeprod

@Christoph-Hart said in Sample not triggered if MIDI overlaps:

how does the buffer determine which noteOn/noteOff belongs to which event ID.

Well, FIFO means First in First out, so the earlier note would automatically get the note off. The other model would be a LIFO (Last in, first out" stack), but I think the result would be super weird.

They draw in midi for basic drum beats, then drop a midi note right on top of another note to create their flams. Every. Single. One.

It will probably come down to a preprocessor definition that customizes this behaviour on a per project basis. This problem is more apparent on drum based projects, because you don't need your super VA style Saw synth to flam :)

I have just encountered this issue and have gone through this thread to try and find the solution but it seems it may still be unsolved?

I hadn't noticed it before as have just been playing notes in with my keyboard to test my plugin.
I dragged some MIDI files into the plugin inside FL studio last night and noticed the overlapping notes not playing.
The odd thing is that the overlapping notes play the first time around (usually) but once they have gone through their initial 8 bar loop and play the exact same notes again, the overlapping ones don't produce sound. That struck me as really odd as if you just play the 8 bars through once you would think it was working ok.

100% of the time if I shorten the notes so that they don't overlap anymore the issue goes away so it looks to be the overlapping that is causing the problem.

ustk

@Christoph-Hart Might this be related to the double notes in the midi player issue happening only once per loop?
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/7311/midi-player-transport-bugs-info-requests/21

rzrsharpeprod

I have now tested this with several different plugins - some with effects and some just a sampler and it happens every time so I don't really know how to get around the issue.

@Christoph-Hart asked earlier if this is a problem with other plugins and I can confirm that I have tried the same MIDI file in addictive keys, several kontakt pianos and some other keys plugins and they all handle the MIDI fine playing all of the notes within the MIDI.
I even tried one of my earlier Maize plugins and that plays fine as well. I tried that because I think I remember somebody saying that Maize uses the Juce framework as well but I could be wrong there?

The issue is quite odd as isn't even consistently dropping the same notes each loop, but in summary:

If I shorten the overlapping notes that 100% gets rid of the issue but obviously I can't ask a user not to have overlapping MIDI notes.

If I don't shorten the overlapping notes, they cut out most of the time but the dropped notes sometimes play if I loop the 8 bar MIDI over & over.

I have tried all of the retrigger modes and none of them solved the issue.

If I set the playback to one shot it seems to get rid of the issue after some brief testing last night (I need to do more) but this changes the sound and gets 'muddy' quickly when multiple notes are played. I presume one shot mode plays the sample in it's entirety and doesn't factor in the MIDI note length as much/at all?
If I play with the ADSR envelope I can get it sounding better but I am not sure this is the solution?

As @Dan-Korneff mentioned in the original mention of this issue, it is literally the last thing stopping release of 2 projects now with a 3rd close to completion.
Until this is resolved they can't be released as it isn't handling the MIDI correctly.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to give as much detail about the issue & what I have tried so far

Thanks in advance

Sample not triggered if MIDI overlaps

8

1.9k

10.7k

93.2k