Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio

[orange]

@d-healey

I see, but HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO=1 flag shouldn't be enabled on VST3 versions.

[Christoph Hart]

I vaguely remember spending a few hours last year on this problem. Here's are the relevant parts of the project_info.xml of the FX project I was working on at the time:

<ProjectSettings>
  <ExtraDefinitions value="HI_SUPPORT_MONO_CHANNEL_LAYOUT=1&#10;HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO=1"/>
  <SupportMonoFX value="0"/>
  <EnableMidiInputFX value="No"/>
  <EnableSoundGeneratorsFX value="0"/>
  <VST3Support value="1"/>
  <ForceStereoOutput value="1"/>
  <EnableMidiOut value="No"/>
</ProjectSettings>

Not sure if the preprocessors in the extra definitions are required but I think the solution was to disable SupportMonoFX and enable ForceStereoOutput, then you get a stereo->stereo and a mono->stereo plugin with the same binary.

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart said in Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio:

Not sure if the preprocessors in the extra definitions are required but I think the solution was to disable SupportMonoFX and enable ForceStereoOutput, then you get a stereo->stereo and a mono->stereo plugin with the same binary.

Does it work on a mono track?

Edit: Doesn't look like force stereo is useful in my case because my project only has two channels on the master container.

int numChannels = chain->getMatrix().getNumSourceChannels();
    
if(IS_SETTING_TRUE(HiseSettings::Project::ForceStereoOutput))
      numChannels = 2;
    
return "HISE_NUM_PLUGIN_CHANNELS=" + String(numChannels);

@Christoph-Hart said in Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio:

disable SupportMonoFX

So what is SupportMonoFX for?

Edit: Looks like it does the same thing

String monoSupport = GET_SETTING(HiseSettings::Project::SupportMonoFX) == "1" ? "enabled" : "disabled";

REPLACE_WILDCARD_WITH_STRING("%SUPPORT_MONO%", monoSupport);

HI_SUPPORT_MONO_CHANNEL_LAYOUT=\"%SUPPORT_MONO%\"

As it looks like I have everything setup correctly, and this issue appears to only be in FL Studio. I think it is another FL edge case - or user error.

@orange Does FL Studio have separate mono and stereo track types? (I'm not familiar with it).

[Christoph Hart]

@d-healey said in Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio:

Does it work on a mono track?

Yes, but it converts it to stereo (it's a convolution reverb with stereo IRs and I assumed that your plugin wants that too).

So what is SupportMonoFX for?

Allows processing of a single channel. But I think you can either have mono->mono or mono->stereo, you can't have both, hence my suggestion of disabling this and enabling ForceStereoOutput

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart Right but in your example you have HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO=1 which is the same as enabling the SupportMonoFX check box.

[Christoph Hart]

in your example you have HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO=1 which is the same as enabling the SupportMonoFX check box.

Oops you're right, but I think the project settings override the extra definitions. Could be an interesting thing to investigate on a rainy day though :)

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart Well in that case I think I have everything setup correctly, but still there seems to be an issue in FL studio.

I think I'm going to have to try it myself though because it could just be some setup issue on the user side - although he seems to know what he's doing.

[d.healey]

I can confirm the issue on my system. I'll now try out various combinations of things to see if I can find a solution.

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart I tried your configuration suggestion and the problem is still there in FL studio. So I'm pretty sure this is an FL Studio only bug

[d.healey]

@orange Do your stereo effects work in FL?

[orange]

@d-healey said in Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio:

@orange Do your stereo effects work in FL?

Yes it works.

You can try it yourself from here: https://noiseash.com/downloads/

Just install the Prestige Racks plugin, and pm to me if you need the license.

[d.healey]

@orange said in Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio:

@d-healey

I see, but HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO=1 flag shouldn't be enabled on VST3 versions.

@Christoph-Hart If this is the case, can you make it so this flag if ignored for VST3 builds? Otherwise we have to go in and change it between building VST3 and AU or AAX

@orange said in Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio:

Yes it works.

Thanks, just confirmed it works here, and removing the flag allows my plugin to work in FL too.

[Christoph Hart]

If this is the case, can you make it so this flag if ignored for VST3 builds?

What happens if you don't specify the flag but use ForceStereoOutput? It might just boil down to "never add that flag manually".

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart I don't see how force stereo output will make any difference since my master container only has 2 channels, unless I'm missing something here.

int numChannels = chain->getMatrix().getNumSourceChannels();
    
if(IS_SETTING_TRUE(HiseSettings::Project::ForceStereoOutput))
      numChannels = 2;
    
return "HISE_NUM_PLUGIN_CHANNELS=" + String(numChannels);

So following Orange's advice I removed the HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO=1 completely, and enabled the Support Mono FX setting and the resulting VST3 works in FL Studio.

[d.healey]

Now testing on MacOS.

As before I removed the HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO=1 for both VST3 and AU and enabled the Support Mono FX checkbox.

In Reaper everything just works, of course!

In Logic on a stereo track I get two options for my plugin displayed, Stereo, and Dual Mono, both of these work fine. If I switch the track to mono I only get a mono option for my plugin and this also works.

In FL Studio it won't load the plugin, not sure why, but this is the same with the previous version. Works in FL Studio too :)

Anyway the result is that I don't see why we need HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO for anything.

[orange]

@d-healey said in Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio:

Anyway the result is that I don't see why we need HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO for anything.

Mono-to-Stereo is a must for AU and AAX, if the plugin includes stereo effects (like reverb, delay, chorus), but shouldn’t be used for VST.

Because AU & AAX plugin versions do not process mono channels directly stereo like vst and leave it to the engineer’s choice.

On a mono channel, Some engineers use the stereo effect as mono-to-mono, while others use it to convert mono-to-stereo sound.

That’s why you see mono and stereo options differently on Logic Pro. The same different options are being showed in Pro Tools too.

If you don't use Mono-to-Stereo for AU & AAX, then your effect will have mono output on mono channels even when you use reverb, delay, chorus...etc.

[d.healey]

@orange So it's possible for a mono track in Logic to have stereo output?

[orange]

@d-healey said in Stereo effects plugin summing to mono in FL studio:

@orange So it's possible for a mono track in Logic to have stereo output?

That’s what HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO is being used for

Just follow the same procedure for AU plugin export; The plugin will convert the mono channel to a stereo channel with that flag.

Same for AAX on Pro Tools too.

[d.healey]

@Christoph-Hart Given what @orange has said, I think it would make sense to prevent HI_SUPPORT_MONO_TO_STEREO from affecting VST plugins. Otherwise it makes it more cumbersome to automate builds as we need to switch out this flag in project preferences between building VSTs and AU or AAX.

[d.healey]

Oh actually looks like I can set the definition through CLI, so if I export VST and AU separately I can change it in between.