Problem With Macro Modulations, Causing Conflict On Messages [SOLVED]

[Natan]

Hello Folks,
Hope all Is Well

I Just Found this Issue, That Using MacroModulation On A UI Slider, Can Causes Ableton Get Refused, and Undo Gets Kinda Disabled.

Here Is Another Report From @DanH And i Can Confirm This Makes The Same Problem Here.
@Christoph-Hart Any Idea?

Dand Said:

In Ableton when using a Macro control on a knob on the UI (in this case the macro is an LFO) the Macro data is being sent to Ableton's 'changed state' info. This makes Undos impossible as the data is continuous.

I guess in theory it's all working correctly - the LFO moves the UI control, and because the automation parameters are in use on that control, if the control moves it will update the automation lane and data.

Can there be any workaround that prevents automation data being sent when a UI control is be controlled by a Macro?

[Natan]

@DanH BRO, On What DAW's You tested This?
On Bitwig It Works Juts Fine, And I Believe This is Happens on Ableton Live Only,

Let's do Some Tests On More DAW's And See Which One Has similar Issue Like Ableton

[Natan]

I Read On Some Threads, That This is Happening With Plugins Like
" Vocal Rider " By Waves, Anything That Sends Automation Messages,
can Eat Up The Undi History.

[Natan]

Ableton, Youre Just Stupid
Check this Out @DanH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn013apgroI

[Natan]

Happens With Izotop RX

[Natan]

It is Cleared Here:
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=35619

Post by djastroboy » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:53 pm

Check your VSTs, especially any that have blinky lights in the GUI.
Open up the live parameter panel for the VST and see if any of the parameters are moving by themselves.
Find the VST(s) that's "self-oscillating" and you will probably find the source of your problem.

[Natan]

@Christoph-Hart Can We Have This?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN5ouATKvPk

[Natan]

On Matrix For front end macro, A Disable Sending Out Messages Button Maybe?

Is this possible?
@Christoph-Hart

[Natan]

In Izotope Rx, there Is a feature called Adaptive mode,
users Saying It Fixes the Undo Hijacking Problem.

It Kinda Makes The Changes Internally, And Wint see The Messages Outside, didn't Tried by myself,
But it makes sense.

And NO replies Here From Christoph Yet

[Natan]

We can Have a Simple combo box, With Yes No Option In Floatibg Tile,
Which Makes: Send Macro Messages? NO/Yes

It something Like This.

[DabDab]

One man is Ruling here.... That is @Natan ;)

[Natan]

@DabDab I just trying to Find The Issue and Narrowing it Down, To help @Christoph-Hart Get The Issue Just Quicker.

This is not A BUG from Hise,
And Ableton Won't Give a Damn,
I found this issue is Here on Ableton, since 2015
Once Plugins With Self Automating showed Up.

In remember Ableton Facing with Issues on Undo/redo.

[Natan]

I just installed Vocal rider, And Can confirm this Happens With Waves Too.

Ableton?
-NOT MY BUSINESS!

[DabDab]

@Natan Don't get me wrong. I was just having fun. It was a Joke.
I can understand what you are facing right now. Hope you don't mind. :)
Cheers !!

[Natan]

@DabDab All good Bro.

[DanH]

@Natan oh cheers man, that's good to know! Nice work finding out :)

[Natan]

@DanH Cheers Mate, This was Somewhere on my Mind, To Check, and Yeah
This is Happens Commonly On All SelfAutomating Plugins,

Is This A Bug?
Well, Christoph Can Bring Some Light On This Situation.

And here is my Try With vocal Rider

Pay Attention To Big rider Knob, and Ableton's Automation On Down left-hand side.

It moves, and On edit > Undo History, always It shows The Rider.
I made a dummy midi clip, and Deleted It, and tried to Undo, And Ctrl + Z Like Ten Time, does Nothing ( Look at Edit On Top, when it Blinks )

https://youtu.be/ar_TgPNl83E

[Natan]

On Vocal Rider, If You Select Off, The Knob Still Moves, But It won't Send Automation Messages,
I Think It is Exactly what Should be Available on Macro Modulation,

So Once you selecting A Destination, On FrontEnd Macro Panel, The new Paramers shows Up, with A Default Value Of OFF, So no need To go and Setting it To OFF, and Things Stay Fine On the Ableton side.

[Natan]

Something like This:
Just A Button, A Gate, Between The Destination and Automation

Not sure, but it may Help to reduce Messages Thread aswell.

[DanH]

Coming back to this as Logic, like Ableton (and others most likely), now records all knob movement in it's undo history and using a macro modulator to control a knob on your UI will send continuous messages and populate the entire undo history in DAWs rendering Undo pretty useless!

Is there any way to make macro modulation not broadcast it's outgoing info?