Bipolar Filter modulation is ...weird , in fact the modulation system is...wrong ?

[lalalandsynth]

I am not sure how this is supposed to work but it seems weird that when using Bipolar modulation on a filter it never modulates around the set frequency ? In fact its not that much different from the normal modulation , a bit but not much.

I would expect the bipolar modulation to modulate around the center freq ?
And why is there a specific Bipolar Freq Intensity knob , what is the use case ?

Of course I might be doing something wrong , but should be simple.

[lalalandsynth]

Is this just a bug or is there something I am not getting ?
Or can I maybe achieve true bipolar modulation in Scriptnode ?

EDIT:
Not sure If I am going nuts or the modulation system is all wrong.

Say you want to use a simple envelope on a filter , if you have no Bipolar modulation going then the envelope will set the filter much further down then the filter freq and when you hit a note it goes up to the filter freq , its nice to have that option but it should go up from the filter freq when you apply an envelope.

From there you should be able to select to have it work in inverse.

Now, you can set the Bipolar freq to max and then it will go up from the filter freq but only a little bit , the amplitude from the envelope or the LFO is minute.

To me it seems all wrong compared to how synth should work. On a synth , a fully open filter and the envelope has no effect as it can not go further up, it seems to me that the current functionality should be optional (nice as such) but not at all the default.

Here is the envelope on the filter .

Fully open filter.

Any thoughts?

[Casey Kolb]

I have yet to get this working too. The whole modulation system throughout HISE is a bit whacky and inconsistent. Definitely could benefit from an overhaul.

[Christoph Hart]

I've added the bipolar modulation for the filters on a customers request a few years ago and never used it since then.

But the default modulation is exactly like most of the modulation things work - you set the max value with the knob and it modulates from the min value to the value there by multiplying with 0...1

In scriptnode you will be able to do anything you want with the filter modulation (the core.pma node will be helpful to combine modulation multiplication with addition).

[lalalandsynth]

@Christoph-Hart said in Bipolar Filter modulation is ...weird , in fact the modulation system is...wrong ?:

But the default modulation is exactly like most of the modulation things work - you set the max value with the knob and it modulates from the min value to the value there by multiplying with 0...1

I noticed that , but its not regular synth behaviour ,although nice as an option.

@Christoph-Hart said in Bipolar Filter modulation is ...weird , in fact the modulation system is...wrong ?:

In scriptnode you will be able to do anything you want with the filter modulation (the core.pma node will be helpful to combine modulation multiplication with addition).

That is great ! , thanks

A modulator should be able to be unipolar , either direction and bipolar , preferably with offset from knob and invert.

Also, an LFO should either br free running , in tempo sync (and optionally synced to playhead) and retriggerable.
I am assuming i can do that with scriptnode :)

[lalalandsynth]

A very simple example of the strangeness of the modulation system.
Say you want to modulate the Pan on a simple gain module.

This is not possible unless you pan it somewhere first .
The LFO cannot pan pos neg around the center value.

Modulation Envelopes always start at zero and not from a set position :
Example : Envelope to filter , on a synth the filter envelope goes from the set Cutoff and not Zero, usually you can select pos or neg.

LFO: Same thing when modulating a filter. Should modulate around the filter cutoff.

LFO to pitch - Vibrato. Same thing.

I know it has been mentioned that you can do what you want in the scriptnode but I must emphasize that the current modulation system goes against any conventions , both in software and hardware and should be fixed in my opinion.

Currently its not possible to do the most basic synth modulations and I keep hitting a wall with this.

[lalalandsynth]

@Christoph-Hart said in Bipolar Filter modulation is ...weird , in fact the modulation system is...wrong ?:

But the default modulation is exactly like most of the modulation things work - you set the max value with the knob and it modulates from the min value to the value there by multiplying with 0...1

Again...this is wrong, in the sense that this is not typical synth behaviour.
And the bipolar system is also wrong.

I can layout exactly how this should work if you want ?