Set order of parameters as listed for automation

[ustk]

@dannytaurus Whaaattt????

[dannytaurus]

@ustk

These param IDs:

knbSourceShape
knbSourceFM
knbSourcePunch
knbSourceDrop

produce hashes that aren't in that order. So the AU params show in a scrambled order.

But if you suffix certain characters (calculated by Claude's Python script), like this:

knbSourceShapey0flsry
knbSourceFMceb9co1
knbSourcePunch3v588bg
knbSourceDrop5pn7u77

then those produce hashes that are in a determined order.

If you do that for all params, then they are:

1. In the right order in the Component Tree, so VST3 should show them correctly, and
2. In the right hashed order so that AU shows them correctly, and
3. Spaced wide enough apart (hashes) that you can insert new params between existing ones if you need to.

That third point is the one not possible with the JUCE_FORCE_USE_LEGACY_PARAM_IDS setting because that just sets a sequential integer order.

[dannytaurus]

@ustk Claude said, according to the HSIE source, JUCE_FORCE_USE_LEGACY_PARAM_IDS doesn't actually work at all for AU.

It calls getIntValue() on the param name, and because all my param names are strings, and all strings return 0 for getIntValue(), all the param IDs would be set to 0.

[ustk]

@dannytaurus Yeah that's how I understand it, clever!

[ustk]

@ustk But I'll stay out of this added brain-shuffling beast and stick to legacy, I think.
I might never add any new automation parameter, and if I do, it'll probably be for a v2.0 so I don't mind the break in my case...

[dannytaurus]

@ustk Make sure to check the AU version if you use the LEGACY setting. According to Claude, it will set all params IDs to 0 and therefore only one param (or none of them) will survive to show in the DAW as automatable.

Interested to hear what you find out.

[dannytaurus]

@ustk

I'll stay out of this added brain-shuffling beast

I don't blame you!

[ustk]

@dannytaurus Yeah I tested successfully AU and AAX (not VST3 yet but it should be good)

I'll keep your idea in mind though because it seems very interesting.
In fact, it might be doable to add this as a layer in Hise so it's transparent to us @Christoph-Hart ?

[dannytaurus]

@ustk I've been looking at the automation params of some other synths, that are exposed in the DAW and really, they're all over the place. Nothing consistent at all.

That's why I don't think it's worth all this effort.

Although it might be nice to be one of the few plugins that has sensible and predictable automation params.

[ustk]

@dannytaurus said in Set order of parameters as listed for automation:

That's why I don't think it's worth all this effort.

That might be precisely where we can add value

[dannytaurus]

@ustk Agreed. I look at these jumbled lists of hundreds of automation params and wonder how anyone bothers with automation. It must be so confusing wading through it all, just to find that ONE param you want to automate.

[ustk]

@dannytaurus If others are like me, you record automation while turning the knobs, and show the recorded lanes... This way you don't spend your time scrolling like crasy

[dannytaurus]

@ustk True, true.

[dannytaurus]

These are my test results to far.

Forcing the order by manipulating the IDs to produce specific hashes gets:

1. Correct ordering for AU in Ableton Live and Reaper (but those users likely use VST3 anyway), and
2. Correct group ordering in Logic Pro, although params in the group are still alphabetical

VST3 always shows in the component tree order either way, except in Cubase, which shows the param groups in the wrong order, but the params inside the groups in the correct order. WTF.

Conclusion - probably not worth the effort, but since the work is already done, I'll use it.

[ustk]

@dannytaurus Good job detective!
I agree to the WTF, seems that developing new protocols of all sorts there's still no agreement whatsoever in the way DAWs handle this... Shame...