Procedure for sampling and preparing samples.



  • I am planning to make a sampler using samples from an analog synth.
    Can someone give me some tips , so I don't start off with too many noob mistakes?
    I gather you guys use a 2 track editor like sound forge for inserting markers for looping etc ?
    Any preferred or essential tools for this purpose ?

    For analog synth sampling , do you use single cycle waveforms or longer samples?
    Also for analog polyphonics , like something that uses a top octave divider , how would you deal with phase issues , I gather that it could become an issue as there would be phase coherency on the actual synth that would need to be emulated on the sampler.

    Any tips on sampling and preparing samples very welcome.

    Thanks for your time.

    P.s this might be a stupid question but what are the considerations for sampling or recreating a known vintage synth , I would assume there would be copyright issues but seeing how many copies/recreations out there I can´t imagine all of them being licensed ?



  • I recommend you use Reaper for sample editing, it has some great batch editing, naming, and exporting tools.

    .
    For looping I use
    I made though showing the export process.

    This sampling workshop from the creator of EndlessWav might also be of interest to you, it's in German so you might need to run it through a translator.

    If the original synth used samples then there are copyright issues, if it's a pure synth and the sounds are generated electronically (by hardware circuits) then I don't believe there are any copyright issues.



  • Thanks , I use Reaper so this is perfect , thanks.
    I am still tackling the issue of making samples from something with a top octave divider.
    I would have to measure it but I am assuming that there is a certain phase coherancy between notes.
    Using individual samples would not achieve that unless there is some trick to achieve this ?
    Any input or experienced dealing with this particular issue ?



  • Not sure what you mean with octave divider, but phase-alignment is one of the most complex issues in sampling. Ask @elanhickler about this 🙂



  • Top octave divider synths are where there is one high freq oscillator ,divided into the top octave and the rest of the notes down the keyboard are divisions of the top octave. Therefore they are all related in phase.

    Yes, I can imagine that phase issues are important , to be honest , not sure this phase relationship is even possible with samples.

    Another general question about sampling.
    For analog waveforms ,what do you guys use as the sample ?

    1. A single cycle, no attack or decay on the sample.
      2.Leave in the attack portion and then loop a single cycle
    2. Leave in the attack portion and then a second or so for looping of the waveform .
    3. As for the release portion , would you sample with the longest possible release time or just "fake" the release within the sampler ?

    It feels like if you want to capture nuances you would like to keep at least the attack portion and possibly capture the behaviour of the release. Wondering how one would go about setting up the sampler to use a release portion that would have a max relase as the normal behaviour i.e , in the sample.

    Edit... This is a bit trickier then I anticipated (always is) as I am getting some phasing when using one note , long release and fast retriggering of the note , the overlapping release is causing problems , are there any mono (retriggered)envelopes ?

    Edit: Can I use one knob to control 2 or more parameters ? Also , can I set an offset , as in maybe I want to tweak the min max attack and release times within the sampler but present the user with full range controls within that range ?

    PS Edit. I need to use 5 samplers and one noise gen , I am trying to figure out how to use one envelope and filter for all , any tips appreciated, also sorry for all the questions, just getting started .



  • You can't reuse filters and envelopes for multiple sound generators because they are polyphonic and there is no way to guarantee that the voice amount is synchronized (what if a sample is shorter than another, it will kill the voice of the one sampler, but the other keeps ringing).



  • ok, Basically I have two issues that I am not sure how to deal with .

    1. I would like to use the noise gen with the samples , preferably shape the noise with an eq , and then send it into the same adsr and filter as the samples. How would I achieve this ? Or something like it ? I guess I could copy the adsr and filter and apply to the noise but that would mean two filters and would not sound the same.

    2 As for my bigger issue , I am working on a drawbar style organ , so I would need a fader for every register and 5 copies of the same samples except that its moved an octave up and new samples added for the lowest octave. Do I have the same problem here ? Not being able to share an envelope and filter ? Not sure how to achieve this then .

    I guess I am confused as it feels so unusual to not be able to combine sources into one set of adsr and filters.
    Maybe there is a misunderstanding here ?



  • Ah, I understand, this is the downside of making the architecture as encapsulated as possible (actually every sound generator is like it's own plugin, with the exception of the global modulator architecture).

    Luckily there is a solution for this and that is to use Synthesiser Groups. They are also containers, but with the benefit that it coallescates its child sound generators on the voice level (plus you can even use FM to shape the sound). You definitely need the latest build for this feature, because I didn't touched it for a long time and it is basically broken in 1.0.0, but currently I am working on a project which uses those again (needed the FM part), so I fixed it a few weeks ago.

    Check out this funky patch:

    HiseSnippet 1937.3oc6a07abTjEuaaWhLShMPR.sqDGZEsqjCDrlOBYYSDZZ+QlfEwwloMNHgDjx8TimRomplTc0NXCHkKbfSrG1Kbi+B1curGVo8.W2iq3.WPBPHwtH3Ptf33tu9qoqdl1y3wLlLFlQxQc8p5U8u58wu9UU2YCA2l35xEZ5mdy8ZSzzOCxZOlr4xMwTl1pqnoOGZMrqjHLBEszdswttj5Z55SeCeA54lQK32CqrD1AyrIIhzz1hSsI2j1hJSjdGyWg53TEWmrIskxnur4p1b1xbGtGfmoQEzZisuKdGxsv9CaJj1tTx8c0zKfJWZAwcKt89KtPxukJr6MVbQ18tmhrE9ikggnY6IDDlbKPcMcj9+C9oitdcpjKrjXIAlSzR756Y0jeeV3sdKpKcaGheihZV.lBEWk6T2ew6e8pLvrz.aSTTSa4lTm5aDaVc0fYdiDi7zgF4yiViVm1Qdhw9IB5vHQCUys9Tog7LofbwCCjy.d5JvalP38jHKaAssLoGercZTmEbJXENVso9woPKygQvjKzBeWRUAzniFyekBEtjQwBEt30lMedvM6JM1EKLVQfu+RXQQiWxHVYb85uBiu87WHtuKbIiRE7+6hWqWMK0GMKAZV7EOPUK2GUKCpV9xwpNaFHdMdcP+fjkE1gHgldNXv6jfaPzE7Wt8h4ApaoCT2xCT2xg51viYKoblAmcKtjrNa9Kl+cxmK+6ku6dZzHqt7sLBtiCQjUu9Yth9n17LuVaSDWBftiGIXbt2mJsaF0wEmMet2A9KmM1kzwldUUq6Btjf3GlKUt27EWnfwyGMaWyXaAAe2q0s9ktppEd30u7UUsxCV+74dOXwCYVoyKO8gKuzNLzSYfb1pLpb81DVuYtwdwjd638TEk30TkF3sxXXwhJlAwfVTpAPQLczvgqjADDyEQPX4PqSDZT.i4QwtNs.ij5yEzFF8KkR+G7R4+OCm9ky392KEGPzFm3nx95+DsnNfv4TzbcBETm4gfRtPlTxYZ4Ojv8IQa3mQkMdmJC7Btxia7F8.tYQWuQChsLAryfp95G0mlczfR5BZtgf60N.ImMP.wktOTTSn3CnnFyZuveczWTy0YXXcUcM0YbYrPPIhUY0Iusp7Nd8d5oaRGzgizIc.tx3GPUB4dDTDynOi4XMAeHp4ZJE7NWHdeLzhu7JV0hfYv0FWmsKwg2Nc4VqwY71M4LpsZ3PMhTP2YGfLTA7YthVTJgppW1SrapX5UH1385QZ3fSj7LlgRtIAPl5.eYXAmz92YFLcwBdvS7uLs7bkIYVOnQim8SpQbHvSeST6MM61bO8gybOfpt6WHwrnvUjQPZ63Mg+bwXMz7OdC1yfBhANIXWebTTz4IBC6bnnDmwES6iEB17ns.1Ja+6tOLOemlFcVDCFrulKYSb.ZR3VVEnAERR8tnqnaSbfYlzu5aNx7GijZvl9mZMXGwswelP.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.ZYLhi+IRpOkewZgsK32NH3jvpWH9kvF0YQ+15QcVLtSsdqJXNjEsUaGRMXa5hsi26dfHiHYp1iZbdKK59jj8v7sUVA2pM.7jDvutxsIR0yyB379mUVQrmpLyuZ+uuxso0kMUmKvSP1mnTAAH8eL5nK+41H2+GHZgCLyvpRHGudfXzIndZHRfQBNr+.H+TAsM7o6LtAgQD8vQer+8KrtsDt6aJvL21b2TSrEoEcSNy2fjHD1Aje1cMeKa5c7fEY1E7HEXMloNVXomHvEsXKtGS1uWdvQmrclIuWfi2uEi79eTEtRL3.COtZk2P9veVSmvOOrSluSxelowO.5vmNK5vRiI7gOrxPvG9vJGHenl4D9vecxGVZf7gu+28uqLgObBeX+3CKOtTen4ngO7TS3C+UJeX4I0GNgOLS9vSE+AGcKNE3bB8JAWO3sIemO6c+fQOM3D5le49cnNIm9XKm9WJ2iVXaA+srCeq99YwmJPBXaYA+G+IGZM+1Fc9xx8s+sfb22x112g97fGHaMJMzZTdn03xCsFuvPqwUFZM9CCsFuXezvmnbQOIuUX5sl1+GXtIagE
    

    Note how the envelope and filter is applied on Group Level, while the constant modulators, which control the drawbar volume are applied per sine generator.



  • Cool, will try this !


 

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