4 samples delay?

A Former User

Is it possible to give some delay to the fx plugin in samples unit?

I am asking this because in ShapeFX:

When the oversampling is on, delay is 7 samples.
When the oversampling is off, delay is 3 samples.

So I just thought that I can enable the artificial (7 - 3 = 4 samples) delay when the oversampling is off. Otherwise delay compensation won't be stabile.

Any way to do this? Or any other way?

d.healey

Maybe this:

A Former User

@d-healey Thank you, but I think this is only for MIDI event delays.

Can I use it for FX plugins?

d.healey

@Steve-Mohican No, only for instruments I think (I didn't ready your post properly it seems :p ).

A Former User

I found a Script FX delay core module, but I can't see the parameter name to give delay amount in samples.

alt text

HiseSnippet 1201.3oc4XstZabDEdVIuMQJUkjhKzetX5OVCtFIkj1BlRTrrcPTeQX4jz+EFO6QVCd0LKyNqaTMF5iVeD5iPeD5aP6Y1KRirUb1JHtgz0fMy4xLemybNeyA2WIYPbrTQbpcxjHf374tClHzi5NhxEjd6Pbp6tCDRm.JEY6IQz3XHf33T8EF8N0Vgj98WOaaZHUvfYhHjWI4LXe9Xtdlz9c9IdX3dz.3D9XKqeRmdLonqLTlfXopaSRDkcN8L3PpwrJtDmOa2.tVpFnoZHl3rx1xfICFI+EQl8uhGyOMDLKZQFfaTl38jgAFDajR5NhGFzuHliIDG29yx.Uyx.q5d.OfOU9rLwCSU3MyC67gSkaCdsrgWyxCOGK3sRF7dj6.lhGomowfsG31SnA0PJdEXCqLaIN+taWIZfPu4X54vdJbwTG7ebyla30tYy02ZXhfo4RgmTbnTCGI7Wu9k0qU+p5dWW0vgKTm4XTxvPPsP0lac0s4nuHY7ofZCuKngIvTCwve97q66N+Ze8yxhZKCkhdBt9nHP7tx5j7TkI+miJzTcZ1+Kxy9amn0RAgiI4ZtYKZQRgrcG.4k81gpoEaDtm34DAJM2DBN6.WfcHYWq0v1r3y0xnTaGGIEFD3buRbruc1QdRmISW7aurSTQT0Cc3dYMxXikB6ov69dysKZ3s5YFQtYgGV9KCRBo546ILDA4JvKx4J9LUXhXtdhMQwGjFkxB2G41mqYiVLdqr.7hWcenwaNsSC2cGNDX5YfcE2894+a3XpmWtgmuAHEEEKfXoxVUbaTG6xh0XGqxiIUf2O5sO+TEUgU4aFJoA9qYDu15a0ntssAlMEM1nbSlBvfJ8hA7WKU0MbHuTEcofL6LPOsYwesb8490nNWDxEfMIStEEbMrBeKnaZT+xF083C87KV6geWl8GyWJv1LFz8K5h7y3NQxSTclgWk8G72PXLTx8XAaP1lbUZz7dhXy1kGUcoggmhOd5e8vsHsX9YZNIRAHg.bhrOBJ+X53nP3X7lXCuSCkryGv+U3lr047JaarvmMhJDXftLj5tyWPWsbj5Kne5XYhlKN6.pVwQ9P2CSFO.GkfAcyQGJyohgaOacSyZS68.PDjt3uwubksLqcxU1pP4GSOKrx+tmE1x5YAxC6Xy9rZ147.2WSu.RG8Ksk+qRWOTpF68BP.JCMZqaY.v+nrC.FU5A.OhoQHbhhJhijwPK6c9Z5ZaqaGPmHl27LQyYkI71CCOK6temBgssE1mJlayv0ysSGvsxz+4y1UPwR1A.FMAGEyvf0j6reAreBxJ7ZdfdTKaGmItssXmpklz+Sl4du6l9nZ4f664YyZEXb.2vetq3BHDanSw3WhcvCoIg5Boy2FcfTHiFIEblcM0w.xic1Yvb0MKLfdtVib8yjrZmigPfFa0Z8Mc1GeFjpv7Drj4hVkOWba2WesaFb8L89deZL0X0+WN0X46PQ5wOBtouKlO3t3LFSYJ4aXYieXZ8tepDLtEo+iRp4dfYs2zoNbcatYSxXj.+MLlo53aw7yh8o8R3yiWBedxR3ySWBe9tkvmueI74GtUeLuc97DsbbV8OJn+toS+43jMpPZq.4e.z3VLMC

A Former User

Any ideas please?

Lindon

@Steve-Mohican use SNEX?

A Former User

@Lindon The picture above is ScriptFX DSP core.
I couldn't find sample delay in SNEX also

orange

@Steve-Mohican You can achieve the sample delay with the Simple Gain unit. But we need to convert milliseconds to samples first.

Let's look at the principles. For example if we have 2 milliseconds delay in 44.1 kHz, the sample delay would be:

2 x 44.1 = 88.2 samples

If the sample rate was 96 kHz, sample delay would be:

2 x 96 = 192 samples

Acording to this equation you need to get the sample rate with Engine.getSampleRate() and calculate the ms delay amount. In your case since you need 4 samples delay, your equation will be;

4 / (Engine.getSampleRate())/1000

So you need to use below loop in a Simple Gain unit.

   if Over sampling is active
     {
        SimpleGain.setAttribute(SimpleGain.Delay, 0);
     }
        
    if Over sampling is not active
     {
        SimpleGain.setAttribute(SimpleGain.Delay, (4 / ((Engine.getSampleRate())/1000)));
     }

NOTE: / 1000 is the conversion rate from Hz to kHz

d.healey

@orange You might find these useful:

A Former User

@orange Wow! That's it. Thank you so much :)

orange

@orange Alternatively, Engine.getMilliSecondsForSamples() would be a shorter way for this.
For example; if the declared delay compensation amount is 4 samples :

if Over sampling is active
SimpleGain.setAttribute(SimpleGain.Delay, 0);

else
SimpleGain.setAttribute(SimpleGain.Delay, Engine.getMilliSecondsForSamples(4));

Dan Korneff

Can I get some extra eyes on this script? Incorporating delay compensation with Engine.setMinimumSampleRate() has become a challenge.

I've created a simple project that has the following:

simple gain module (set to induce 1ms latency)
scriptFX to set Engine.setLatencySamples()
button to enable oversampling
simple gain module to compensate for oversampling latency
label to display simple gain compensation delay

What I'm expecting to see is 4 samples delay when OS is off and 0 samples delay with OS on. Instead, I'm getting double the amount of delay at init, and then the expected values when I toggle the button. Does anyone see what I'm doing wrong?

HiseSnippet 1374.3oc6X0saaaCElJwZKVctncnO.B4JEzrT40zlNTLrz3jTDr7iQbV15tXAzRz1DQlTPhtsdEEXOE6UY21WjArGg8FrcHo9gNVIywXKXAn5FCRd946b3geGR2NgGPRS4IHq5mLNlfr9L6NiYhAsFfoLzdairtq8A3TAIwUO0ViiwoojPjk0huTNgU8ZH02e9Magivr.R4THzobZ.Ye5Ppnb11a9sznncwgjSnCMjd8M2KfyZwi3i.7rnsOJFGbNtO4PrTrErQVexNgTAOoi.KHofLawCG2Y.+MLs7mRSociHxAMQc.ComF0Z.MJrcdrlhPV0ZWF4Kpi7GXe.MjVLeYF3dpEbK0vLGXsvjPp1DPp4kAoc4QgRCbIvyx.d0zv691cBRnwhxUjX6N16wfMmdXHsaBKsrnEVslcKNHASr1P74jcSfAEZ38Te+Ucehu+JOugSCGH4mJbeMNw8nNms0Hgfyb+Z2b06SDs3Ci4LXf2xERrrT2RM2lDgGe1o3nQjKUWCYtf1gpUB.QIrTrfp.fpdTZhc50iD.5OsTKqCfFNTVDkQb6MhEnzlyJ.pDKI7HufbfrJ3R.Bqzv4cMbbguG8H9qIIo3gwfQ5C51voNsmWtTRQxjT9sCqO3p0RIhCnL5vQC6HUjbLTF30zW9IAUtzSiYoluPHRncGAZTw5pzzptEl485epFq85ommDkRtVPc8+8PZla5KcSTDsCA1XCS2ENanbWp25qbIwB3.2HbWRjqf6FRSiA641gJ0xURxnAkq.nKzpXTBIQm2xBxaEKupqt1BJZV18gUEI8mkHo.kMbdupt5e7HfDCY0WsvQQcAZKuoK8xKRMpNOjKHGw7Vw4cN0cdui6EWpWuJWKyfQjjJWVRqlbUJ5wFMrKII+DPtf.WyjjY2Y1HyBz4GCA4r8XTwQPhUOtjtStlNpyW0GUDrlSUFilypBsJDqbpoYSQY6eRd0LwAQEJV06lwpp2nPzPIkZwFGRkeL6mg9t81FKv4lBrJ3oXRhfJyWVaSdMzuSSXW2daR54BdLz5pnrAYYOSN9sEN8O5t43hA+xwaJqzkpejw4eYHV3fkzNnQlC1WdtRY+F1FGaL7vG9QCO7geZy2PCEC.fZ86v3ADZ+ARXasALh.kGXUE.j.U.4ysyOx4ul+W4ug+igF7S07BZgxCGEgES1WUd1NaAn9bhFXxlTrTpXr4ELtFMa8qrYaypJOlQ3de61TQvfpw6BUfWnH4+Z7lc0kF15dikfsl8t+vMv8TVb5bmSVcG3e8lrpHkbFjyHrfwUdKke0xtjkJNgDiSHmvaC0UdoEspV0saDO37NzeVxXk25H.GEH2OHtYNPufwcJRiy8MTjV1iJqoDzdxrakWyUdtoUCk5eYllmZX40ufdSzedBCX10SvE3HWydPN0KaWuuVs79mlgxCM79JOWxdazXIVuqrkLe4EL.yXv8Blm9A1SVz7oyVQyjr+v03M2QKaJXhxqKk9w7QBHwd.FZlCLY1GBWpAd1P.oUVzJYrVPx8qG6KGKOR1gvBUC9K3KawlxwVYK1Lewx1FyEou4wzkJdak5NMur7sU8vidakGMl7sUHjhk0jK760rz4S7pMq30W6wfhPQadDN4hLSKdUujp4b9Rpql9TcStaMz84M1tEAXUIwsG.eO613+OTPbSvkLCjAOvd5GjL6TBG8re6iTBejR3iTB2ZnDtI7wPbPB+r.8EpjGMWRMCD2L0+oZc6Cjical+RWaa3YbngzP5YAAxmQ7EP9oZc9x4PmGOG5r9bnySlCcd5bnyFygNO6J0Q9WM+hQB9Pc8OLQ6cTW9zxZGl7o2piBn+FvbCV5y

orange

@dustbro said in 4 samples delay?:

Can I get some extra eyes on this script? Incorporating delay compensation with Engine.setMinimumSampleRate() has become a challenge.

I've created a simple project that has the following:

simple gain module (set to induce 1ms latency)

scriptFX to set Engine.setLatencySamples()

button to enable oversampling

simple gain module to compensate for oversampling latency

label to display simple gain compensation delay

What I'm expecting to see is 4 samples delay when OS is off and 0 samples delay with OS on. Instead, I'm getting double the amount of delay at init, and then the expected values when I toggle the button. Does anyone see what I'm doing wrong?

Why do you use Engine.setMinimumSampleRate() for that instead of Engine.getMilliSecondsForSamples()?

Let's say the (ampirically) calculated latency value is 4 samples. The latency compensation value is declared with a script fx at the very end of the fx chain.

In this example I've used ShapeFX for oversampling. So when oversampling is on (for example 16x), the simple gain delay must be 0 (because we've already declared a latency compensation value with script fx).

If the oversampling is 1x (since there is no oversampling delay anymore), then we need to give an artificial simple gain delay because of the previously declared latency compensation value, in order to keep the delay balanced.

We need to calculate the delay amount (in ms unit) with the current sample rate and previously declared sample delay using Engine.getMilliSecondsForSamples()

HiseSnippet 1363.3oc0X80aaTDDeujrnDCopklG5KHsxOcQDhrg1BhJDWicbwh3Vq3RoUBonM2s1dUta2S2smaMUUpOxGIdfG3QdmuH7M.l89iu8puFRMsUDGIqLyN+42N6ryLqGFIcYwwxHj0VObdHCY8Q3QyEpoclR4BT+tHqqfGPiUrHRFqClGRiiYdHKq0umlg0VafR+7We6ATepvkUxBgdjj6xNhGvUkbG578be+dTO1C4AFReSm9tRQGouLAvy53VnPp6YzIr6S0hsFFY8AG5wUxnQJphEir13.o27QSkOUjI+i3w7S8YZh1nQfgxX2S56oQrlKpyTtu2vh8cLBrxvxnv5YQgcvC3d7E7KiFWMcARoFlwCq0NO301Ddst3vyx.dajAuqgG4FwCUkqnw1Gh6KfCpwT3HvDVYxhV6O1.2QBRHT6GPOi0KBHVng8sa0ZOxsZ0Z26rcisa.GDwJxLZD4AiNoKymN+j7S2Hx2PRSQ1eBSc33wLWkcykDpo1LkFYzTZHq2iqS07kZl42JddFKZDMHzmKl.lm5p3yRcewt.rRGYPnT.D.FpU7WAHYnbF0OgcxQzSY9uVysjjKPn9Ot.bCiLNQ.tQJHRQ8tWa6Housagg2ijZxc2twy2tAA9vGamwgjQSHOW+UAAoH1seLScWkJheZhhYWvT603butGosFhE5szYRUKr7xoj6QrOTLA1a5vw.3dJeDCBedw8jYaOVr8M2cWSGsTjR6H6lJ1yTM2ijEHI2MPlHTeMoI4SIW.G.R0jDD2zvOuvHnj8OL+X1agn1sdaD0Zseq+SwjV0ui0aoWjl28lkzqcWdtWGpu+oPgT6+kbzxz67HoQx88kJ1CD16134M1pwKVdowiqcsbK6yhpcYc4+nySQaQRvornh6LEBB0AqVnE+5KzZ1GvMKDZHnTzWvUOHjIdckeQ4wccg3bTAhpRKCek7xvGjnTRAhCUauAt9XLJcGX1YD8C86RUzB6Bt.baHKRw06HqtrYPmyrx8ag6xhOSICglfKN6glgu4n3YKPvKejy7EDN+jyS4dpokLF6LkwmL0nq8cbPF9dyLeuctuSSwSc80wKk5a30e2zquzyQeeP2ss58gVv8.TNfvV+FHZAXvVeBPQ84SDAYw.rOaLb3rbORnSszKwmpp19VOyR9BPpVk9j5dghXtZt4LMuS5oeQg60vC4J2o0i20pAuP1z6Z7lOgz13rF3kfcCbuGupiCU+zZspabn0Mvx0JtejWXOEGkTlfoSRzrrgHOfSiORmzXD0z7NtZ9NB8c.igfALmP8H4Sqv5W9SG3zw3h8MbLatTxeGmpSKuiywLujpCKe2DkbxqLSc5ry8EgIJStci3ypn5.9ypLId5NuG2GltKtR5w5UOSV+hclTSJwwxDErCGPgVifuw2OIXDL3tKCxHDBn0r915Z5BnYzszzZHLhI7RI9a3S9hs0zV4K1tXQyztMW77DtdFg6Uj0cc7RsjOm2nfPohZx3GqT3C8DmZdESeAblpFJ8oQu50s2VwyJuB47qIn2RjKM0v937h6Wh.bZJwkG.eU7P5+GRHdOWQHOjzHeDj7p+MvcO5ImzYvv108FXqeEWNlYXDKjFwdnbHjeZmVxlcLDP1ibpuz8rQ7e13YZYem+xEX35i.AEtyKewRwX6v75lyNGlA3CzVz1MOPrJi7huLU3dwPyqzTtuWfX.0MRdhaVTWW.dyTNPXSj9yMsEdfllztXzcLFdiGJf6wOw0UOtymA2BpWmOeEz4KVAct4JnysVAct8JnyWtB57UmqN5e4M8HRAYU4.FCOLM4xx5PAER9Suoi9G4sdruC

Dan Korneff

@orange The only problem with ShapeFX is the oversampling is restricted to that individual module. Engine.setMinimumSampleRate() must be called to encapsulate the entire plugin in oversampling... and that's where I'm getting the issue.

Dan Korneff

@Christoph-Hart said in Scriptnode "oversample" node starting at 4x crashes in PC:

You could add a HQ button somewhere and do
if(value)
    Engine.setMinimumSampleRate(100000);
else
    Engine.setMinimumSampleRate(40000);
in its callback. 100.000 will ensure that it's always 4x oversampled for lower samplerates and 40000 that it's never oversampled in non-HQ mode (using 48000 would cause oversampling in 44,1kHz).

It will fade out all voices and then reinitiliase the processing chain with the new samplerate .

orange

@dustbro said in 4 samples delay?:

@orange The only problem with ShapeFX is the oversampling is restricted to that individual module. Engine.setMinimumSampleRate() must be called to encapsulate the entire plugin in oversampling... and that's where I'm getting the issue.

function prepareToPlay(sampleRate, blockSize)
{
    //calculate latency
    const var dsp_latency = Engine.getSamplesForMilliSeconds(1); //calculated dsp latency
    const var os_latency = 4; //calculated oversampling latency
    
    //set total compensation
	Engine.setLatencySamples(dsp_latency + os_latency);
}

I see that in above delay compensation code you used a dynamic value (dsp_latency + os_latency).

AFAIK Engine.setLatencySamples should be set to a static value. This value is declared to the DAW while the initialization and it can't be changed after the plugin is loaded.

Since dsp_latency will change with sample rate, that might cause the crash.

If setting the delay compensation to a static value doesn't solve the issue, maybe the new scriptnode version will be better for this.

Dan Korneff

@orange said in 4 samples delay?:

I see that in above delay compensation code you used a dynamic value (dsp_latency + os_latency).

This is actually the described method for the Latency Test sample in HISE tutorial.

    // This converts the 200ms delay to samples using the samplerate
    local numSamples = Engine.getSamplesForMilliSeconds(200.0);
	
    // Propagate the latency to the host. This callback is as late as possible to
    // catch any misbehaving hosts...
	Engine.setLatencySamples(numSamples);

Engine.setLatencySamples should be set to a static value.

In the real world I'm calculating absolute latency values for each module (in samples), adding them up, and then using Engine.setLatencySamples() to compensate for the largest possible latency. I'm just using Engine.getSamplesForMilliSeconds() as a quick way to compensate for the faux latency I set in the example.

I'm not seeing any crashes on this end (that I know of :grinning_cat_face_with_smiling_eyes: ) Just the wrong calculation of Engine.getMilliSecondsForSamples() at init.

Dan Korneff

After a little digging, I'm getting closer to the calculation issue.

Calling Console.print(Engine.getSampleRate()); from inside the ScriptFX I'm using for Engine.setLatencySamples() shows this in the console:

Oversampling off:

Interface: 88200
ScriptFX: 44100

Oversampling on:

Interface: 44100
ScriptFX: 88200

@Christoph-Hart is this because Engine.getSampleRate() is reporting the oversampled rate, and not the sample rate of the DAW?

Dan Korneff

I'm going to try to grab the sample rate at init and store it in a variable. Then calculate the delay with that as my baseline.

const var HostSampleRate = Engine.getSampleRate();

4 samples delay?

42

1.7k

11.6k

101.4k