Plugin parameter value jitters in VST3 hosts — host echoes a stale value back during writes

[JC]

Correction: the "script writes are smooth" claim below is wrong — see post #4 for counter data. Both paths are affected; the native drag is worse in degree, not kind.

A plugin parameter's value jitters noticeably while an inbuilt slider is dragged in a VST3 host. Writing the same parameter from script does not jitter.

The snippet below has one parameter under test and TWO ways to change it: the inbuilt knob, and a ScriptPanel handle that writes the same parameter from script. Both send parameter gestures, so the gesture system is not the difference, the only thing that differs is which code path writes the value.

Reproduction:

Load the snippet, compile, export as VST3.
Load in a host.
Drag the KNOB both slowly, then a little quicker, watching first the orange slider/handle, then the value readout under the handle. You should see that the slider/handle jitters/wobbles/shakes back and forth, and if you carefully watch the value below the knob, when this jittering happens, the value flickers between two adjacent values, for example: 0.2500 / 0.2400 / 0.2500
Drag the HANDLE (orange slider/handle) slowly, and it should be smooth. So it only jitters when the knob is used to move the orange slider/handle.

Severity scales with load

An earlier version of this snippet had a single plugin parameter and no repainting panel, and was nearly clean in Reaper (however, I could not reproduce that reliably afterwards). This version registers 48 plugin parameters and repaints a panel at 60fps to match a realistic project, and it reproduces in both hosts. My actual plugin, 48 parameters plus an analyser and a custom EQ display is much worse. That scaling suggests a timing race rather than a logic error.

What it is not

Not the gesture system. The Plugin Parameter Simulator highlights the control in yellow/mustard colour for the whole drag, so begin/end gestures are being sent. The panel path sends them explicitly too.
Not quantisation. An explicit stepSize makes no difference.
Not a feedback loop. Completely stable hands-off.
Not the normalised value conversion. A host automation lane sweeping the full range is smooth and uses the same conversion.
Not project-specific. Reproduces on this bare snippet.
Host only. No jitter in the interface designer or the plugin preview.

Environment

HISE commit: 5d34685fe1a9e75e40dd4171270d764a2fdc0de9 (2026-08-16)
Ableton Live 12.4.3, VST3 - pronounced
Reaper 7.79, VST3 - present but milder
Windows 11

Possibly related:

This may share a root cause with the automation echo issues in https://forum.hise.audio/topic/14165/latest-version-of-hise-breaks-existing-presets — a listener not distinguishing an echo of its own write from a real change. If so this may be a simpler reproducer to work against, since it needs no presets, macros or custom automation.

I also noticed setPluginParameterSortFunction and the gesture API arrived in the same commit as the unified automation base class (a92a701de), so there does not appear to be a version with the newer parameter API but without the rewrite.

Happy to test a patch against this reproducer.

Snippet:

HiseSnippet 3758.3oc0bs0ababElqsWmXkjhDz.zKOMPOTrJVZytjTqjsapsrrbV0XcodkraPPpKE4r6NRbIIHmcWsIw.E44BzWJJP6+f9enOTTf9KnO2W5uf7On8blY3k8hrEEiAJW3KZmYNm4b+7MjT7vPeaZTjenVkkNZR.Uqx6VsyDOd+s6aw7z18QZU9gU+kLNmFRdJMHz2YnMMT6gSBrhhnNZUpb8OEWXkacCMwmu69Ozx0xyllNjl1y7Y1zmvFv3oiF7fOi459XKG5QrAYVs4C1012aaeW+gfPc8pMzBrrOypGceKbYWqpVaqn9ZU9npMan6PW21j10xQWeS602zjZ1zwby0azvrqdCaKq6rg0FmnU4l63v39gc3VbZjVka7PemIc56O1StAOiEwNwkheooVGXmkC+XeWGTEwQ01tOy04vXqUjFvkCSscWWZ69vp6wbXIimZCeewDjTJxZ.qbsoEuqOk30Lq30Hi3s.QpRFQ5FRQ5Cp1wNjEvSmAkm2o5tdfKsqE3mxJJx0pcsezOo5G+wjO46yOKALjzd2N6PBbG1i4QBrBAOJFXcpL95+769ijvjXLxHcRMWeH9vYkkdiHLiZRFB5MwhDw754RmWvr7bHishHdTqP2IDaWpkGAVwSoVAzvUIi6yr6SF.xnfgLNxPWvLS.hniXNTHQnNoCcDMjwmPhrsfYIiY79yuYaevw6ejbKg4ELb.vJHxeMd+PpkCAsFqRh7I79rHBvyHluWpIKBF2OhRfzGHdBlJ5t.WDLhPViXt4b6YDoVSxHY3E41DyMH8YNfPuxpfRws6ClEv5.6sKA1iSo17DtYAbwi5h6NDjyEqjSZ0na.HF9Dea6gAS.AhFqDDoRDKQGr+Noxwpjid9AfkdhfV69Vdv5Y76p1sl0EL5y1+fGJ1al2ICYtbRaVGWvFCj6DZ0qG3J8r3rQTvUUa6aeawnDfYNtzvUT7RWxq1as+idxN.uTYGBcYL3jPEAWPDHYYbNcC8G.tObswZvC8AuXDE7WoKqGMhOLjFI7RwegXERI6evQB9NxJjYAl65jifu464NQvLGV2tzPLbg.tVYbksuCJBvtfBlv8hz6NjVOVF147.voPctK4DgzLvG9u5RC7IQzvQfMAb3Vjm04HCBDcvuqzVEqlBa5.qyTbWZrDAg3WMWygZyFX4J3H597GxiSWOgxGSodD9XehkyoPoDOtT7hpSdT1MQYrAEKq.tOEBySx9i.4LBblhRDI5mhxmS933erMIpeHy6rrhqK3yqS1B79gg9iAVpFOJ.EYglI3lvmJjPRnHDyGxgHC7A2S.6bpaDwuKgGZAQPpzLZpxZ6CAxDpUDC9penfg8sBgvOLlMhREosn8IDWa.yETegWdRR.vb4e0+9ux1Ra6Ck1830Qu5iCgujTpu1FsZrJwrUiUt2R3Fu1ZqQ3C8vvwH7KE4yRPUmHz+GRNbq824Iu34X11mP1nQi6M2bsky0zbp41+38dwga8zs1qCLm4l2CWDHkbeNV+YVS2pP.isqLaNtDluGMC+d3wc97W7jc2eGje55MtmjeKnnJAplGWISXYvHpjnH1WQwJLvPdjSj0zvX9HQsmHHzv0e7R3FJI343tYVGTszwZiZacgDj7A1ltgV1XgZLtSVNsOk0qOO06HpQjsPzPOQDGTZgb07NQtNGgT+Ij3.EKGmOyy+jZKqlZ4UI5Mv+BgIpgpGQ40VlSOGmbYwhldxmh4S0ZTGnqI9OvOM8BdFl1AKX8YYJK5Pgq8vXUD1Ad3P5rqKX5UgnAyJKwVLnGlLgd93EYusKoYC42AP0Yvi.bCxvwzIYQGnJ5ZhRUodEWVDWzmD9eFzjGnCCabRy+Q94g3..dMztOB6.nXHz4b.TNGcLAVB2PD3Y9huTF7v.8pqeHoFCFDhdXjed1rj0HMgwt8sWYoudILhBI4rE4XAVuLzemA9E3Of0BW8YR65XlCuOXIaN8vx.w4GWkpASz0xMhlcxEGCjLc1HfLL7U3+yrpKv6eHj6hZFXftMHoJZhsj0CFF0u1YvnuTDe7oYaHGgsqDs0Es6Es1kca499Ik+OC3ibz3dhh7TjahQk8sAzLO4ywFs.n8ztzhN4gX+Cu5YR.GFzG7Q63A5CstMDzvoGCspODDLJusDsRsLQzyTKBapVagMSVgjiZ.sSpUsnx.pYQ2+5YJEnFd5pAxAIOe44ViLfPWDPnGGWL2pjwEXESToWfP19UJjswxUaNmP1dgBY6kmaMIQsqmF11btUIERo3uDyC5sSIcG5opd6oTmZXiendsGeUYHPblYZmAwvpvTOWDlTcUimZx3zKh4seMLu8kg4YZqHi3WS0WSEec0a5q1uocUBX0PxqbNUeklFnQLV9lpFjB4vrSmTKRgdX14g5s9i2F92SrrOKBc2a6xfeZURaABueVBbTQmhLzdHZadJ.ZCL40hM405ksf5XPkvyaUuGk+bTNqopxH5tmYx1BoL6rifYi6g0KNFBk.bAh8WdYNp037la9XwGE08p2k459T.aesungnp8Xn+0WFSK3FamEhKwxNzORBgu6PW3jLnfJJhAGtEvu6ppHoNZkBMaLuhv9RHFqDPvC.61.zIB8ufpXhij.8qROnfBVrpaP8TCBZtTQ6YLSncpO4ihCUSm4bDG3HXlZig1Y8Gmw5MAmpVeb39q.q.5brPSGZ11ZKCiEX5NeUxDvtg1toLdlD04ZhlEmuMb.+Snhi5.1gtv4DDmQgCBNoGbxFw0KfW+BDio7fv4rFukKqmGEh.NmWSUwGNBEXwNxuCGNFSuZi..4vwsQuLpp5lBWsdiuDhhwSTERcvf1Wt35NcjQWWXogEWEHCtJLYMz2MN4oVBKmqL87qTM4b0JunU1dlju87GFQSVUR1GDL5wiUfzt1jHtUHFPNIfRzgPii2kjQsY.t3yIMxjwInm0kHYXcarj.dsjhweC8gqiGeOATgZipoKR3TXPVLWHey2PjCfmlVxyuNgyuxxFYKNnX54XLtpCgHNeE37txDhDSbBsnrLBvAhnqVJ64IPF1.O1wLK8WH55N2RaN0RmCo9nLha7jxpGNflH8LIeeUhmOmjP6JDKWvsrJlFAPciRfMK33Km0lN.iCNN3R6YhAd9xLfjVzg5tRGiE3WGNX0wqGAAwdaQNYXzDh8vHNfUzgEE3ZMgTyxyxcRDdsm14WASFNhtRcxyUWA.w0mScUGfi3IQBBIrP7JvRNbf6IH6cwFF3kq.LMQI.LOYXOxI.BU7LD.dxn5S2k8gnzbAcYw4hO81cTcYwwdEcYSmNEwunAc1Iey1ljmBGFl+3.7HQWTaxF4oM4zz1BnsUqs2NdVAFSNM.18wP9V5UKHUxNUsTwYvNUdFrSgbuLqkbJd9q4y+CNGV9oP5LtESm4GLQ0MDxzgisrGzhodDyqFGFxndCXnSES1TGa6IWnodJOjsVdB5KBfNb3eUbC9xjXP1xTsWNimDuWKgyWyM1SJbRYaVLE4XAXACp0rENADCF4Cc+CBwku7AeFItM5zWFeLkbh3x6imUKyAXuMLvbGiAZ2koC299b5ARA7VPuKxrS0s6BmS0CRbTpELsTKdEDVya3fSvr6j1ohEpU4FSeuZpdw2qlr2JIaY1ZlE56sqGieP.06htASZpTbMsJ5JoBVJWbWc9Ap6pi75eqwbzpbqppxzZBQVcC096+as+080tDjeypvolaLEsxOWVZaV.Z0K.sFEfVyBP65Ef1VEf1MJ.saV.ZuyUi12RDaznHD2rHDqWDhMJBwlEg30KBwsJBwaTDh2rHDWjHL8hDgoWjHL8hDgoWjHL8hDgoWjHL8hDgoWjHL8hDgoWjHLihDgYTjHLihDgYTjHLihDgYTjHLihDgYTjHLihDgYTjHLyhDgYVjHLyhDgYVjHLyhDgYVjHLyqXD16VM85hMKGZ8fbxg1Swge6e3e7Ouu1w69HKtE9zboN..bnf.ZHmgm2nxiniX1T4y10sp9HZzYb+.sJlaGeovfguDmQ3b3nKU9PXOmD+CCXNf.cnej3QGJqUAOAaG1WMkkBuuJHvPAyl6V3g7rB9L9M+csKgHsLR7aIk32qZlmFGk.qtdgyHveK7ChKmArja92tlTljW.CbjeuRJm9FCnU4mV8htw.SINuyq6TRBgQKVXzxs0KQzqnMqnGOxn3CRJ4e9LwuUU7Fi1LOJUyRhRomGkRujnTF4QoLJIJkYdTJyRhRsddTp0KIJUq7nTsJIJ0F4Qo1njnTalGkZyRhRcm7nT24+6Up2V17swkTqhu.YkD0pYtTqlkE0ROWpkdYQsLxkZYTVTKyboVlkE0Z8boVqWVTqV4RsZUVTqMxkZsQYQs1LWp0lkE05N4RsJKnLzyEJC8xBJC8bgxPurfxPOWnLzKKnLzyEJC8xBJC8bgxPurfxPOWnLzKKnLzyEJC8xBJC8bgxPurfxPOWnLzKKnLzyEJC8xBJCibgxvnrfxvHWnLLJKnLLxEJCixBJCibgxvnrfxvHWnLLJKnLLxEJCixBJCibgxvnrfxvHWnLLJKnLLxEJCixBJCibgxvnrfxvLWnLLKKnLLyEJCyxBJCybgxvrrfxvLWnLLKKnLLyEJCyxBJCybgxvrrfxvLWnLLKKnLLmFkwstbOhkBc6OcUeRE+t6OH6amPsGLv57zu9adf74XbopwuDKVzik3q6Q3THg+3JWJITIM+k+L94ud+Y191Ss827U9TQh+J4MySE4xUdkOUjearPL+aIv2u5d9NCcs3S+RKDe0Npl.0iruo.wWpTdf9MIqs96s2jgWVQ7CpdHia2ewx30VfLpo8FQFUu+Geup6zsK0lmJf2n5i+0uYdYOpI+8ws2dV7PFFGr+vAc7GFZSgc2CBUve6DqfAApu2HN2sC0yQ7k+K7QMYy37WbxlwSpM.ewR7Ba4yzL9Fl7sEi.xjmHw9VU2C+NYAO74PN.6E11Syp4HT+pRnwUkPyqJgqeUIr0UkvMtpDt4qmP78Q5VC49CjoMZZ6c3Nhm67JU1Q7FgSDsp8+.Tn1TlE

Expected: when dragging the KNOB, the value and the orange handle should follow the
drag smoothly, without overshooting or undershooting.

What happens instead: the value, and the orange handle jump above and below the drag position while the mouse
is moving visually producing a shake or jitter on the orange handle, and settles correctly as soon as the drag stops.

[dannytaurus]

@JC Seems to work smoothly in an exported AU in Logic on 2025 M4 MacBook Air 32GB.

Slow drags:

Fast KNOB drag:

[JC]

@dannytaurus Thanks for testing that! A clean AU result is genuinely useful, and it may be format-specific, since AU and VST3 don't share the parameter dispatch path in HISE.

However, I've just updated the reproducer project that takes away any human error by way of uneven mouse movements back and forth, or trusting the human eye to see any jitter, and uses actual data instead, plus a correction to my first post that's needed.

I'll be posting this project in a sec!

Thanks again for your time!

[JC]

Correction, and a reproducer with counters

I need to correct my own post. The central claim: native slider drag jitters, script writes are smooth. That is wrong. I was judging both by eye. The script path only looked clean because the ScriptPanel handle I was watching spreads the 0–1 range over ~676px, while a rotary knob's pointer covers roughly 35px. The same value wobble is unmistakable on one and sub-pixel on the other.

So I replaced the eyeball test with counters. A timer drives the parameter through a strictly monotonic ascending ramp, 400 steps, no mouse involved anywhere. Any decrease is by definition a second writer. The script also counts callbacks against writes, and checks whether the value handed to the callback agrees with getValue() at that instant.

Conditions: 48 plugin parameters, a panel repainting at 60fps to load the message thread.

HISE: 402 paints, 401 callbacks, 0 backward, 0 skew.

Ableton 12.4.3, VST3, same build, three runs: 555 / 562 / 567 callbacks against 401 writes; 153 / 161 / 166 backward; skew 0 / 1 / 0.

The excess callbacks and the backward steps track each other almost exactly — nothing is lost or reordered, something is injecting extra writes. Every backward step is exactly one ramp increment:

cb 0.007500 -> 0.005000
cb 0.012500 -> 0.010000
cb 0.032500 -> 0.030000

The host returns the previous value while the script writes the next. Skew is 0 or 1 across runs, so these are real writes landing in the store and notifying normally, not display sampling artifacts.

Repaints lag the callbacks 132–147 backward paints against 153–166 backward callbacks, because repaints coalesce. Visible jitter is milder than the actual value churn, which is why this was easy to under-report by eye.

Then the same parameter driven by a host automation lane, same build, same host, same session:

Ableton, using automation lane, ramping 0→1: 1000 paints, 1000 callbacks, 0 backward, 0 skew.

That contrast is the useful part. Automation has one writer and nothing to echo. A script write is a second writer, and the host answers it with a stale value. That reads as the a92a701de mechanism directly — a listener can't distinguish an echo of its own write from a real change.

The magnitude varies run to run, which is what a race looks like rather than a logic error. It also explains something I flagged as unexplained earlier: one early Reaper session appeared completely clean and never reproduced. That was the low tail of this distribution, not a mystery.

Consequences for my original post:

The two-path asymmetry isn't real. Both paths are affected. The native drag is worse because the drag base gets perturbed and the error compounds, whereas a panel recomputing position from event.x each event can't accumulate. Difference in degree, not kind.

I pointed at MacroControlledComponents.cpp:735/752 because it was the only differing code path. With the asymmetry gone that nomination is unsupported, and I withdraw it. This looks like shared dispatch, not slider-specific.

Reproducer below as a snippet. Press Sweep, wait ~6.5s for it to stop itself, read the two totals. Results are drawn on screen because Console.print doesn't exist in a compiled plugin.

If you get 0 backward in AU, that's a real result — it would narrow this to the VST3 wrapper, since AU and VST3 don't share the parameter dispatch path. Worth knowing either way.

HiseSnippet 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D1OzcOfIQL6Xi6g.183ioyrLWbmzgFcnrPmjMDZGuMczxYvfyVoMwoSKSWpAGM4foSwVxVosjC1NyrSNW6jQlnBGAkoEprrotHW8wVH1GrlPlPTndPdXbyNXwMhmfDDOpRJPHphmmDQqjbPMR2NsnQjk24dajrxq.FGqlpMKkSzuuCoStMOm6jTbY92jbz3iLl3ddoijzVBxfvKgOCHwBzx3kXCijBZYKdHrDfUjHuvp7Q5MgtY3P9TvwdjsONB6Qh.hDH.+kvr72UiygrE5I7OK1WbArYh27v4wvvatspWHXgUW0QxoZL6AxIFW1S7CTr4P7zfYJZKO7ZUKqe90Y6IyQXmsq0OE6LC3cjcRdkN2W8Ots1k3oAoV16me+TDpo4lSnQW01rbwoJF1UBVcqzGBJHdJdk2hbPZ8naJjGCed8lA.r5V+bwS.Ov+gxAAyrE9bhLZh5xzSni3gKISAZWs7jirrgRwSV8qpVbYCaPO24J0yo2Uw6PIuR34zNTWX48oRqtWAqCK47IR7BWALgPoh+jCNrqdrNoyJGq+0rdi0ED4stlJ5YiZmfsaqL60Wu9Xk0SCSjc3zLmnG83o.vIV+grf8NCV9Ddbj7wvXsm4hUddKNN8VczdpnBVHdjnltRDO7wCYSw6f9fnG85oEsCZJarNbLazeF5r3dyaz6KMyc9mpbdm+0UMtzqeW2ediNf2PeFoFKWOFnOT2k4wes41O6qYpGRKsGKcrn3kzypNl2V6FRwD5qcqZfMQyTbbPL+YhX6eLvVrU6Z73b6SxyzM6kS2xMgadhM8mO8LLachgmFXs5ue1O3AM17G7.8OWDiDNoZCLv+w9twOaF2eSeZIpI8rqUqtkjqfgFSeDE9SjeDEFRO2H0bcpU+iaHcXpQrr9mkjZWio+AMlY6zoDysaIlqQIlqYIlqUIlauRL29kXt6Uh4teIl6cuYy8CIeiNkYxcKyjMJyjMKyjsJyj6UlI2uLSduxL48KyjKiGlQY7vLJiGlQY7vLJiGlQY7vLJiGlQY7vLJiGlQY7vLJiGlYY7vLKiGlYY7vLKiGlYY7vLKiGlYY7vLKiGlYY7vLKiGlUY7vrJiGlUY7vrJiGlUY7vrJiGl0MzC6m0H8loWkB28AEjBCxPg+1+w+i+yuXiTPTcKQgsZnpnu.xf17+nFhp6xY1u3wOxN1F+fQKK+.JIYFOL1Eq1o9i3W3NhK9XR+wMdDO5swAypUe+CUUJCMeMpP4Rnvo5+JX0Vp9GScc.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.2+A5b9Gc8dRNIN+Oq90hykb4e7eAe8u9EqvVC1.a8CegNa8gB15m2P6KLE4yYo7u7Fq7bV9GzM8+62ZUS++fj2x9WjuZ0+yaro+h7kw99AWI6f+E3XE1Y65WI67GRedVe2qwmzH4S++Jqx+1UuJ+O4rJMtNO2szp7G0s1Bi3G1Pz+0xRsUC0GM3b1SW7coWOgH4g+kVxe8sVSDZz.6s15ewH8KZ7z.m4d1wY+dZB+1rR1A5lq+kiD92cbev8eotS7OZe4MccYweYiSbiGMIed7V4vi0p8SBOJ+Ju5m23H5qumTF78a7k+U+z78aUMweDXN+o1wgtnA+34SGFLObDGVcevOD+LrVG2VHeeGkyzPtuC8l+W3krytpv9XmcUcVaJ9mvxWK+diA+R05inV.dxmxG7wMdJ9dVNeDEfPjtudznrjZsIZbSmn4MchV2zI16lNw92zIt2Mch6+tmH9UvV52EFv.d5IGQe9.pW+H5KM.xas1+G21UoP.