Let's talk about FL Studio...again (Maybe a possible solution for variable buffer size issues)
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I really don't want to be annoying. But feels like this need to be pushed.
Maybe someone could contact devs of plugins with no latency issues in FL?!
Most stuff that I use is free. Almost none plugin with latency.
And if there is latency - it is only 5ms or something.
Just wondering how they can handle it?! I mean..99% of what I'm using has got zero latency.Tried my first FX plugin in FL yesterday. Well...you know the rest!
As a producer I can't see the exact solution.
But I can do research if it does help.
Feels like reporting latency to DAW is the way:
"If you need a certain number of samples to process an effect one option is to push samples into a FIFO and then read them out when you have enough. E.g. you have an 'unprocessed' buffer and a 'processed' one. You push into the unprocessed, process when you can, then pull out the required number from the processed buffer.
Of course in order for this to work you'll need to report some latency and then balance the latency inside your plugin with some delay buffer."
(https://forum.juce.com/t/list-of-known-host-curiosities/16969/5)
AND
"Ideally in prepareToPlay you call setLatencySamples() 8 to tell the host, how many samples latency you will add.
PrepareToPlay is the right moment, since that is, where you know the actual sampleRate to convert your mili seconds into samples, and it is before the processing starts. The host wouldn’t like it to change the latency compensation during playback (and like Xenakios mentioned, in that case it would most likely ignore that).
Also be aware, that latency compensation obviously only works for recorded material. The live played track (i.e. monitoring or recording) will have the latency, but when you play back next time, it will be compensated… (the host just can’t see the future, even though the name look ahead suggests that)"
(https://forum.juce.com/t/look-ahead-vs-daws-latency-compensation/30384/2)
FL
This is in FL Studio after clicking "Use fixed size buffers":
(Maybe their support isn't needed but there is support)
(https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/plugins/wrapper.htm)
https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/mixer_trackprops.htm#Mixer_PDC
More links:
https://forum.juce.com/t/difference-between-samples-per-block-and-buffer-size/29164
https://forum.juce.com/t/platform-specific-convolution-engine-problems/25745/8
https://forum.juce.com/t/fl-studio-likes-to-change-buffer-sizes-messes-up-dsp-filters/25767/3
https://forum.juce.com/t/blocksize-and-buffersize/23204/14
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=558420&sid=f14a6e7e766cc8824bc92d7ba46ffe98 -
@UD-AUDIO I don't know if I will answer correctly. i have been a certified fl studio trainer for 5 years and have been working with fl for 10 years. I also noticed latency problems but over the versions (from 12) I no longer had a problem of this kind. you can adjust the latency directly on the fl mixer track (below). some plugins from UAD gave me latency on old versions of Fl but not anymore. recently i created a limit with hise which gave me quite unpleasant latency. it was the limiter of Hise's Dynamic fx. however, I am on a very large vst which encompasses almost all of the fx and possibility of hise. I play with it in FL without any problem. if you have a latency problem with hise plugins, it is possible that it comes from one of your modules. but regarding the base latency of fl studio, if you have the latest version 20.8, you shouldn't have a problem. this latency can also be generated by the sound card. personally i have a ucx fireface rme which is pretty badass. before I had a low-end presonnus that gave me these famous latency problems. to be sure of your problem have you tried these same plugins with ableton for example?
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@yall thanks for your reply!
but the latency issues are caused by my own plugins
because they don't report the latency correctly
or they don't preprocess the latency with a delay buffer or something.
I don't understand it in all detail but seems like this need to be done
by plugin developers to make them work in FL correctly.Version 20.8 might fix some things. But I am not using the newest version for now.
It should work with older versions like FL 12 too.
You may be right with the modules. I'm using convolution in all my plugins.
Maybe I should try a very basic one without convolution?!
But convolution should be very efficient now.My soundcard is a UR22 and there are no issues with that.
Oh and I don't talk about latency which I do hear.
But the one which you see in the Fruity Wrapper processing tab:
It has 46ms and sometimes 5 or 200ms latency.
5 is pretty good - 200ms very bad.
But it should have a "none" sign.
I know why it doesn't:HISE plugins do have a small latency as a workaround for FL so they don't crash.
FL is using variable buffer sizes and the plugins need to handle it correctly.
(Maybe have a look at other forum posts if you don't know what I mean)So what I ask is if this problem can be fixed the correct way now?!
Just want to help with this issue - if it does help.. -
@UD-AUDIO er, this from the wikipedia entry about FL:
Version 12, released on April 22, 2015,....
so you want a 6 year old version of FL to work seamlessly with your plugins?
HISE Development for hire.
www.channelrobot.com -
@yall I didn't test it in ableton for now but this issue is FLS only as you can read in other posts.
And you should now that I don't use MIDI input for testing.
For now the latency isn't driving me crazy and you can indeed work with it.
But there might be more issues depending on that. -
@Lindon Yeah why not? There are some people out there using this version because they do like the workflow.
It doesn't need to work in FL 8. But does it even depend on versions?
FL might have variable buffer sizes in any version.
I think it should work in any DAW and most official versions. -
I have 3 convolution reverb on a plugin. fl does not give me latency. sincerely try version 20 if you don t have a license just take the demo. Is Ipp properly installed? it can come from there too
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@yall I just can't tell all of the users to update their DAW.
Do you have that "none" sign in your plugin preferences?
If IPP is not installed correctly, HISE compiler would give me an error and it would not compile at all I guess.
I am using the Intel oneAPI (installed 2 or 3 months ago) -
@UD-AUDIO It is true but I remain convinced that something is wrong with your project. I noticed the latency on some modulation and the limiter. try to export by removing some modules from your project you will surely find which one makes this latency
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@yall Do you think this may be caused by not using a container for FX?
I will try to get zero latency somehow. But other forum posts told me you can't do it... -
@yall Send UD audio one of your plugins that produces zero latency on your system for him to test on his system.
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I saw those:
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/635/serious-sync-problem-on-fx-plugins/2
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/1616/fl-studio-20-1-latency-with-delay/27
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/1580/hise-fx-and-delay-compensation/40
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/597/latency-problem-on-fx-plugins/25
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/3277/possible-improvements-to-exported-plugins/3
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/3493/has-anyone-successfully-created-an-fx-plugin/27I'm not talking about bouncing.
@d-healey maybe I only can fix it by updating FLS.
but a test version could indeed help if he does like to hand it out
