Additive Synth Headaches



  • I decided I'd get around to trying to make a sort of tuned percussion sound using additive synthesis.

    First I've found that the 'decay curve' knob on the AHDSR envelope doesn't work at all - the curve doesn't change and there's no audible difference in the decay. Second I've found that the release value on the gain modulation envelope on the Synth Group overrides every release value on every single harmonic that's also using an envelope, which makes shaping every harmonic how I want nearly impossible for this particular purpose. HISE will not let me just remove the envelope on the Synth Group, either.

    I thought "Maybe I'll disable note off messages" and that almost worked just using the decay value, but then - even with sustain set to -100 dB, the lowest possible - higher notes continue to sustain forever, albeit quietly, after decaying. This is completely unusable for my purpose.

    I'm unsure what to do, because the notes must play as if they were one-shot samples... documentation is basically non-existent and I can't find a similar problem on these forums. Is it a bug in HISE, or what am I doing wrong? I can't seem to find a solution for what I want to do. It seems like the additive synthesis is geared only for sounds that sustain forever. I can't properly shape the gain of harmonics for emulating chromatic percussion.



  • HISE is primarily a sampler and that's what most people use it for, so I expect that is the reason you can't find many references to the issues you describe. @hisefilo is the synth guy around here, perhaps he will chime in and give you some pointers.



  • @Trivalve Hi man! Not facing the sustain or decay issue here since I use containers with sinewave modules inside. But David is right. Hise is more sampled-oriented
    Use this snippet, maybe it's a solution

    HiseSnippet 945.3oc6Z1zbRCDFGeCvZaG6K5LNdxC4niynCzVe4FP4k1pkJCAq5oNaS1B6zvtXxFr3WCOqdoNi27tiG7Sfm7rS8aP+Fn6l.kPKPgXegpgSrO69D9mmm8+leSFJZwzw11LKfxTkaVGCTlFp0jxqloJhPAqlEnLKr.xlisT8BsTy5HaarAPQI5xx.JSEC394fjKgLQTcbmP.vFLhNdMRMBuSzhodBwzLOx.WlTy2pWL0p5LZFlIyQnmnv3f5H8cPUvqijKKBDnbkbFDNyRii3XafRrkXFM0pxdM0a8aPrIaYhkCR.zDWHuv4YlFREK+NHSUhoQw1221.fBrXmpPTupvMfEHFjCi2oZbM2IT6jg+5gRjAIuD9kW7dJuD8Pd.epKlm5DhfY3Xh3cqLY6n0DDV2cpUobL0lva5uccgJ2qCKR35U6sdizC8JZTm05sUyeFXts2Fqy6H1Xv7u37sSOYebiWEpQnX0sPzcNMrh0GZqnRzyBq2DgVuPq2Xl0aVOo34zbsetB4ldNumiZfUWFSwVxhZh9YBUu0J+7z2D9Tct3murEhZWmY20EVCWiTlQkUjNAelMNuE9UkjcY+wyvPV8bpCRlWbS1ybzPbGK2sKoqwbn7t1dbjCGf8um3+vgtcM9V+faVJwBO03jj6HbFrhO8Nmmdm.ldkrZkZcZg62UyQafMY0wcuku.ixpWkQI592OTBysHUpfs7q9ddKklyELdYbrZz0t4rXcTyiE0aw9MHdQVCKjl+Eth3N9XWtCCj8iozbr4c8DyW9sRXSLxmm5NeNUNcln8fGTKH5v0BNApyAsMYFn2Mop6gCi2OYY11Z0qiLdK1ogtaKtLTWmC1ZC6khB6rvVdoKCk1ABCE8+SXnRLGNgVo.RbJ9thSpV2ollfAQGKTBkhMkOgWIhjivabb4XOHDpg6feK9zZxDxwJslLQ6ICJv078E3pw2+x4Hv0AIGAfqCRNh.Wo90a1K4ECvU7PfqwLfq4uP.tDaA+QxiBb0FAaDAt9zdCCv0tuKD3JD3JD3JD3JD3Z7A3Zg9Abs+iW4CWz.WpoFYfKPp97Ft1ej.th8WBbEBYMdAYsv3ya0JfPV298CCj0WeaHjUHjUHjUHjUHj0Y.j0+J+F0P5VrMErYbKlo7b8IciHpsT2+KNSAKHGql.z.Y5HB.gwuWbPMATxl55xV5cE8fdmy7AHmEBPNKFfbte.x4AAHmGFfbdz.yQxCl1gyp4Y2EAJlKKhiD9obTjvs35r.+AfGNqMz
    


  • @Trivalve also found this. a simple additive + noise organ patch I did.

    HiseSnippet 1288.3oc6a97baSDEGeUrWRBjlVJkNvLbPG3Dy.iUaZgaQIw1oYHN3DkjBWnyVoMw6T4cMqVEvbJm6Algi8.yveAbFN.zibnG5eB8NWxEtwLkckjskrkMdzjeXmHex6a0J+ceu884sxdccNyF64w3.s42scKLPaAnUapnwZMPDJXix.sEg0PdBLWOzzpsag77vN.MsBqqLnMeQPvqSVdUjKhZi6YB.1mQrwaRZRD8rV27yIttUQN3cIMic0KYtgMitFyk4K0SAXIPKj8SPGh2BotrYf.s2nhCQv3VBj.6AzJtJyosUC12RCu98IdjG6hUML.VxaTn4pLWGkhUuGrVChqS8NyaOf7lVumWnPnW3VvZDGRW687F2HnC8diHt+PalQIOi3xqTpxyHE4AhothgpSJBliuKRjTYpvQTGDVxH0FTAl5QDsiGttPk6aCqSD1MRWuyjhdkApyZ8FE7uFrxAGfsE8DaQX0u77MRe8DYiqyY9sBTx6DX.6Q9dYFYfYiSgTRy8F6TxJTjbhUsV763ZHNmf4aPcveWrO7+raXefd1iR7XTVfTVoIymFCOLmYTukwBeZGw7ps+0+X4nNrZwwHm3SSk5svRo5DbK8RrLuPxXEb3wp3PijYSwt9QGD0VHmlDH2BimbSwCpUefpR2.ZQZ1xEWgdD1kIsDhPJiO.46J5ZMtHqIWnzpAiRriuTcGrfSN7PLOtzSc9rhPHq9zyxsL2A6hQdwxN9PyMITLhKcS3L5JLFeWwnBWuGLTt5pzW8KGEAJbkuHvnbcK.Cwipf8DdTVVDK.XOgH0ECk5aIQJTbP40.Ud6f15ODcDVecLEyUShQUb8ki69caM1EW+Bag7ieWNh50h4k3FagaR1kQiWZC.1yCWki+lcT4NIJHyP7T65jkqJmjoNFKjvmGjD1eAYYRWgwNlXL1wDsh4UJO87l4H2rKkcX9BB8vZH4dCjaSEtkeSKYNoMVpDJE6p1zn1Lp7pv1kTsCSJoNAMds7UTmFp1ZQcZzoyrBftyv.P5O042OGAPmrbN.J+A+yAPW4.P2cX.ne9YO62tnAPefYN.JG.kCftLCfVZX.Hym75e377QvLy2ATN.JG.ckC.cug9c.8ikO9BG.kuCnb.TN.5RM.59CC.c7O8KO7bD.MWZ.H8oG.Tob.T9WB8UZ.z4LjatPW5rvsXDuvey9aF99w3WXyz7e9qSe3VFgHC8vfjSTN8HJoxmmYvCE0rvUdPYqchHIAuWuyQ.w3L3LfrlO+nDKAKisQsGvZ+GXjNV1DKkVbyOPNiG3100vwesokumHwO07W87AN6IKYVwlc1cvSfi4xjqE+fmLgus2E6n0vHxj9glHXYwzfe85vnErSEN1EgQ4RSJt1YCE6aB2WRvrUe5JY9tcap2cRX7+qV4lw2EEHmd7kMjrQt.2Oyg7XraR.xf6xJy.j7iAb1K4kx4e7lv5L21gkxpRbExZWJAMOLrwnNlR.f5Is7wT6ddwW9TysiZ77W7h+c4jKC9Hys8Qt840Wkzh4h38GQN9u29UmhkcJNlKatMr6jZZ5zNphLSO588gQAcckyd5Q2KB2dBPrWVddtlHaN6QxGiRvYtpbz4BrHm2zf+VNyCqoZqa.NB45KM.gk9jRflxmq4Q11Jn4GK8OoOl6jgwb2LLlkxvXtWFFy8yvX9zLLlOajiQ8Hkq3KXMCW+KMTuRYj.IS.B+2aDjJ.9O.C7xHF.
    


  • @hisefilo said in Additive Synth Headaches:

    HiseSnippet 945.3oc6Z1zbRCDFGeCvZaG6K5LNdxC4niynCzVe4FP4k1pkJCAq5oNaS1B6zvtXxFr3WCOqdoNi27tiG7Sfm7rS8aP+Fn6l.kPKPgXegpgSrO69D9mmm8+leSFJZwzw11LKfxTkaVGCTlFp0jxqloJhPAqlEnLKr.xlisT8BsTy5HaarAPQI5xx.JSEC394fjKgLQTcbmP.vFLhNdMRMBuSzhodBwzLOx.WlTy2pWL0p5LZFlIyQnmnv3f5H8cPUvqijKKBDnbkbFDNyRii3XafRrkXFM0pxdM0a8aPrIaYhkCR.zDWHuv4YlFREK+NHSUhoQw1221.fBrXmpPTupvMfEHFjCi2oZbM2IT6jg+5gRjAIuD9kW7dJuD8Pd.epKlm5DhfY3Xh3cqLY6n0DDV2cpUobL0lva5uccgJ2qCKR35U6sdizC8JZTm05sUyeFXts2Fqy6H1Xv7u37sSOYebiWEpQnX0sPzcNMrh0GZqnRzyBq2DgVuPq2Xl0aVOo34zbsetB4ldNumiZfUWFSwVxhZh9YBUu0J+7z2D9Tct3murEhZWmY20EVCWiTlQkUjNAelMNuE9UkjcY+wyvPV8bpCRlWbS1ybzPbGK2sKoqwbn7t1dbjCGf8um3+vgtcM9V+faVJwBO03jj6HbFrhO8Nmmdm.ldkrZkZcZg62UyQafMY0wcuku.ixpWkQI592OTBysHUpfs7q9ddKklyELdYbrZz0t4rXcTyiE0aw9MHdQVCKjl+Eth3N9XWtCCj8iozbr4c8DyW9sRXSLxmm5NeNUNcln8fGTKH5v0BNApyAsMYFn2Mop6gCi2OYY11Z0qiLdK1ogtaKtLTWmC1ZC6khB6rvVdoKCk1ABCE8+SXnRLGNgVo.RbJ9thSpV2ollfAQGKTBkhMkOgWIhjivabb4XOHDpg6feK9zZxDxwJslLQ6ICJv078E3pw2+x4Hv0AIGAfqCRNh.Wo90a1K4ECvU7PfqwLfq4uP.tDaA+QxiBb0FAaDAt9zdCCv0tuKD3JD3JD3JD3JD3Z7A3Zg9Abs+iW4CWz.WpoFYfKPp97Ft1ej.th8WBbEBYMdAYsv3ya0JfPV298CCj0WeaHjUHjUHjUHjUHj0Y.j0+J+F0P5VrMErYbKlo7b8IciHpsT2+KNSAKHGql.z.Y5HB.gwuWbPMATxl55xV5cE8fdmy7AHmEBPNKFfbte.x4AAHmGFfbdz.yQxCl1gyp4Y2EAJlKKhiD9obTjvs35r.+AfGNqMz

    Hm, I didn't consider that because using a synth group is supposed to be far more efficient, but I'll have to play around with that. Part of the issue is - and it shows up with this example patch too - certain harmonics, such as the fundamental in a marimba, take some time to reach their peak, so I have to put a (relatively) high attack value on it. If I release the key, the sustain stops building up and it immediately fades out before ever being as loud as it should be, which ruins the effect. I can't seem to find a sort of one-shot envelope effect, which would be ideal... even more ideal if it could be choked off if necessary, like a choke button on cymbals.

    Thanks for the tip though.



  • @Trivalve try table envelope instead of ADSR.



  • @hisefilo I checked it out, it definitely allows for more detailed shaping, although I have to do all the shaping in the attack phase. Still seems that if I release the key before the note is fully built-up, it stops right there and ruins the effect. I can filter out all note-off events, but then I wonder how to add a choke key. I also worry about the CPU hit, if the note continues playing silently - I shall have to experiment more.

    Tl;DR that seems like a step in the right direction, thank you!



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