Best way to structure a multi-mic, multi-output drum library in HISE?
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Hi all!
I recently finished David's bootcamp and got hooked on HISE (many thanks for putting this together, @David-Healey — it’s been super helpful). I’d now like to start my first real project as a learning exercise, and I’m looking for some guidance before I begin.
Some context:
A couple of weeks ago I built a drum kit library in Decent Sampler. It uses multi-mic samples with 6–7 velocity layers and 8 round robins.
The kit currently includes:
- Kick
- Snare (hit + cross-stick)
- Tom 1
- Tom 2
- Hi-hats (pedal, closed, half, open)
- Ride (tip, bell, crash)
- 2 crashes
Most pieces (except the crashes) have 1–3 close mics, plus:
- Room
- Overheads
- Short reverb
- Long reverb
I also set it up with multi-output routing and a basic UI (volume knobs plus a couple of mute buttons per mic/output), so I can either keep things simple through the main output or send parts to separate buses and mix them later like a regular drum recording.
It works pretty well, but HISE seems much more flexible, so I’d like to rebuild the library there and use it as a learning opportunity.
1) Project structure
My main question is how to structure this in HISE in terms of containers and samplers.
I’ve been reading about HISE’s multimic workflow here:
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/75/multimic-samplesFrom what I understand, multimic samples can be merged as long as each sibling matches properly, including sample length, sample rate, and channel consistency. In my case, I think most of the dry mic samples should fit that requirement, but I’m not fully sure how far I should take that approach. Based on your experience, what would be the best / most efficient way to organize this in HISE?
Would it make sense to create one sampler per instrument (with its articulations inside it), and use multimic merging where possible? Or would a different structure make more sense for a drum instrument like this?
2) Routing / multi-output
I also read this post:
https://forum.hise.audio/topic/11553/multi-output-tutorialMy goal would be to keep a workflow similar to the one I already have: both a simple main output option and multiple outs, so I can mix the kit in Ableton more like a recorded drum session.
Roughly speaking, I think I’d want:
- main stereo out
- separate outs for the close mics / mono spot mics
- shared stereo buses for OH, room, short verb and long verb
So in total I think I’d need around 20 channels / 10 stereo pairs, depending on the best way to handle the mono sources.
Does that sound like a sensible approach in HISE?
And for those using Ableton, is there anything I should watch out for regarding how HISE multi-outs appear there? As far as I know, Ableton can see up to 15 stereo aux buses apart from the main stereo out (in Decent Sampler this was also pretty direct, since I just routed things to a bus).Any advice on a solid “v1” structure before I start mapping everything would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!
Jon
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1 sampler per instrument seems reasonable here.
You can merge samples with different numbers of channels, but the lengths must match.
A couple of videos you might find helpful regarding multi-mics.
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@David-Healey said in Best way to structure a multi-mic, multi-output drum library in HISE?:
1 sampler per instrument seems reasonable here.
You can merge samples with different numbers of channels, but the lengths must match.
A couple of videos you might find helpful regarding multi-mics.
Thanks a lot for the quick reply, David.
I’ll check both videos right away! -
Hi all,
I’ve been playing around with this in my free time and making some progress.
So far I’ve populated a couple of samplers with instruments, just to test different mic counts: a kick with 7 mics and a tom with 5. I was able to get the multimic merge working, and so far that part behaves well. I also added simple per-mic gain controls in the sampler FX, which is also working fine.
For routing, I’m currently using a container. Based on what I read in the forum and the docs, I added Routing Matrix FX modules in the container, one for each mic.
Here’s a snippet:
HiseSnippet 3290.3oc6c0sTaijEVFP.1AHYxlsp8loJsY2KLa.hk7evvxDiARBUvXVLI6jJ0TTxRsgdQVxkjLCraMUMuFyc6ivd6dWdjl2fc6V+X2pssvVXL1P6aBce59zmyQm9q++jiLMT.VVFlbwRbx0M.bwVfux051muy4xPct82Emgkl9oW.sOMkDWwqaHaYAT4hEa52gKQr3yv4762dSQYMYcEP6r339jATAb.rNztctGU3CPMs2JqBNAVmnzYJruhg9NFZFMQRyz7o3ZHqbg7YfCkwEaJdt2KacNWr+Be5p0xkQQLeU47RaTcib41HqZ5ZpxRoAJUqJKAPjyjsVNtXytmJz1vrhsrMvhK1LEMTutx4F+jtaC7InErpF.mPjqBpkcy9sFZpXUDmK2NmC0TOx2LYwgX5QsMZS6ZzdAeInJrU9sMdOygfP6ZPZ.iMUPwa5.hmHo3khP75hHEiPjlwUj9F9JJlvF1sofkmmvuutMvrlL56Don3VVtoVHA+NFnRnauVc4K.u0DknUMRtdpTqHjIUpk2LQBGuj0TA0.l6HqoUE8sxJosYS.l3qe8G1emOHTZ+cp7cBhas6mObEAos1oL5eRu0Ie7vC26.Di1p76WQH6VGWtboUDxs0m163hBUde4iOYEg7toNn7guKAxqvxV3vOV5TLSOEyTgsDxuo.pYNdaTybR4RzMElyo83bl.bNaW4LlO9bNKRA7HcF563a+ATde4G2zKqKzqhc7CjWUa8RMsAd44q8qNz9knlgoPRHh+o1T.J7WCZLPY8pWs7+JQ7W+5+gfsgvE.PCAcTmFKAz2WCEHx6RESnNTQHYIwUDJIsh.vVYs0Va4DwuT1DS4vl0qBLQMA7UhHSah3t59ZMZZcdR2O1mAr2qVMfhcxWV6pO.Ut.aHNsDT4kBupMKVF6.D2yL4VceWJDC1wndCCcThjuDUjPYhOO9B7GWyBWScaSCMemsjF5evktGgk2LdheNQBemh6XqeKGFBqeXF9+DxxCUv1dnxPv5er7Pv5GJSZY8C3q8pA6aQBntFTGHTqothMzPWftfIU7knUDtTVCgdfrjZFJxZBPcUvUHKhut3jtbs10.Kjtlou3PyQx1111DVE0YLYPRXV32Da5JaXWkhmbXEgS1qxINoPnvNcl+NASCb+YbGFQmOf3d7nrZzz1qKO96FpjXGX720SLJ4BJzcisWIcKE1bK9RjTzQ86tosnK5Bt.tXq8TLkadkP0lV2fjVDUhaTPQEp6xIhPnhIhtqT1t0MqiqtC6PMbGdyDjQslPharhGizOn9YkjQepuht93l1yrfLXcwAjvb1UuOT0ayPrp5ONYRmhf5+mZsrXG73HZ91Eamuedk368KwO2VXPeV5srfrYcUTBz.3B0I+6focJTPqx5HtkP.8iT0LA0MtDTAnqh9XpCbpdRD1Dd389proWQPD2IzozvZB9sT73jUUVUs6sQb5FoyR52B+LVUCUSwVmvUzfBfTOUxfMe59RA6j2cS45BmwJFg+vgF1fx5IWNApMPTDnIUqVWo40YTCX1Ux34YaFVESp6.66644WPzbICNAU9dOAUx4Oq3BsPTPC880g1ka.z60rp47viPSlcIOoBUTamoxtj2TYqnAUAlbPzLVeNO0rGD4bjcxEevEE9HQymO+0HwmzCI9jYHwmrCI9jaHwm7C.eJ1z11P2gOufuygRo4zu8l9gS+N9NFqa.XDspQNUpaiqHIejFR7I8PhOYFR7IaW3yG2eWYaY7JY8vAPXCM.l1PLrSrcAWBU.tqqMN+t.qKrMZvEapVSbAsnb21eQ+U8JqCzbZ944c9aQtqZ2feegqIa8eBpZedqLJXT3b.7ryI1xhqKDKAQasvf.KcE4NbPzr6Vntgpm9n.qhj15jamxm+Zc4qHERKaPiJv+ouY6e+q+5+8MVMqUChJEOufZQT8UU0.GYXAwn6sqqzWsAWYiKEZwwbMjMQJAg1zx.wEMUTpWp3u7o6AUbmx2ApX5dphxibUbdd28OoO0xEGjgZ5gV90yF4Z4L7keOGzFT2e+.WfWLuTlLqKkYiTCeUOaO6lpOxU8Y4waa0HT4y0KkWv7dv61cu5Fgpe9do9EZdeo9GbaU+3C1DnHzBURm+8K36RVZ68OjZbxe4u0w3jYJzawycmhCtqA9KFfn3Cz705gbijL+gCJ9wJ2NwtKVU+4Xbfb0Vywv4u68f8+4VFR7NoQ70UB+4MijnXp0EkDywU8r1e0yHkecwMRkZ8TAbGhymMUZQQo78ouvMMyHxwuQ83G3YFMa+OlZvYIOoLyHoAAYI3D3mzGPMxpd5G.CnFYkOyChATir5m8Aw.pRCDzuzMB8mf2+rJuqg+QRdmGG7y3KYn1TS1N3oSi+l4Q.a+HORX7w9pirqWStgHCsirteEwug+Hnsx4cWFmpKxHG2chL5cP+Kx6dpEsEvY3e6Ob2bp9jM+783xY7T9KPSIBOsJTN.ygw8ynQee+LhM8cw0qfer65Uv5N8Pn6Tr45r8iyiOKQ.pIws8h7DGXSPgX59VHDC2FD3rK4h8GOrY8JnNTJ.jIPGAdiOkkXOCuyptoSgS++P+vmLVqDdDEIIJRQTBmdJDmvDcRv0lsowom1inShXsIlgjsYnXaVRhYoHlijXNJh4IIlmh35jDWmh3FjD2f1HDvDI1gMJnQh1JIJEfrDM4zAHmllb.SkHssRLfwpcJtAwST5ggmnOQZKb.CLs80wfNimaZFJeXGyIuGwrT9vLOwgumX5G6dhQGSbVO2zbT9vNNey4QLOkOLySrWdhYXdhi9Qmm2yMccJeXGmu3dD2fxG9gtmXVlm3D07DS34m5lhvK1026I9jEo8iG68Dyw7DeDshkE7cToWYmqu2h9joWa2nvSLOySjs149DSbIeGU5U24568TexsVeGom3255I9b9J1l.45HeiJx0anAL8bIsbSg8KGc6LZB9Z0jqplKeVjnBzLjUINBC7g+UnXyZ0.lAy8+TvoE2ttQS8.MomFcLnAP1tj6wm3Qb9BGe76LMZ1ftVBEb1kuSLkUt.YTHU0x5.TeOaRUcGSCKqZHsxgWVjjNpo4YXSV6bNFbIvzJXdn9gj8.wKm4iV.b+cnhem01k1oURchrSe9o3cSKRkVhJcZpzYnRmkJcNpz4am10fVRtA1GIty9meZ85cbWmms+foP7w4PWHJYQ3YsZC2bl3dPgS.63cf27XbeYrBDa32S+RTGOTNXY7476BpI2Ty1O2fasaICciFmanCUB5libaO6LfIor2UEZaaamaxheNunvw.MfrEf7H.O.pCjMC16cfrEhC76+rqeu9C7thq.F.SXx8jJl9wyIUz9j+bbseWa6Sv2foXHivwwsKPSNfs5uG3l8v84BcYLv8QcXLsOxPS1j1ROrlSWrY5a2AmWc6XsKKFoAYlG2ERmO8i2B4yv2jg6IQjZUFeaWWkwRTqxfyadpccUFw7mDKaUFitUYvEALzvhuEe9qLLTFFJCC8tCCcHcKGnwPCbKGXXn20XnoYXnLLTFF5DGF5P594PigF394vvP6OLzLLLTFFJCC8QDF5P5lkQigF3lk83BCMKCCkggxvPYXnit6DIMFZf6D4jHFZNFFJCCkggxvPmLtMucfgF717d+fglmggxvPYXnLLzGC2C8NvPCdOzowPCyUaId2KQo.xywzdLruvB7N2rTA78AdruevTgc+TlNr6mxLgc1p7gc1pyF14BLWXmKv7gsmVwCaOsRD15wdRnqGagvmKwhgOWhkBuevS6refh+mKtXy482Nw.0XSCzwWVYmHxfF3RfVfPhiW3uYd9RhqhiZUbQptRqhCTlQntOguT5U8h.kQn5ywWJypkeeTpZb9RYW0IRNEMwN2p3PAzpUhX0y6V8Ch3yPI5WPrne4Fh9AyE8MU9VrgH2tIyOvCDExyPoiGDUvmgRuWJ.cv4A+.LXAmGVv4gEbdtoq7Ne+7.CwQYNVv4gcs0t+ez09dhrfyCK37Ld3IxBNOrfyy3gmHK37vBNOiGdhrfyCK37LR7D6y.QA1ujEHJFYAhB9Ip.QA1FwBDEOlBDERr.QAKPTLwrqbgcgWB9erKr.QA6BuvtvKC6C5+220UYjfEHJ5iUYvEAbLIFNFCGigicOgiwBFDCKbrzLbLFNFCGahCG6gb.YHJ3XYX3XLbLFN1iHbrw+fhPTvwxxvwX3XLbLFN1XTfIf8nrlr1q1GxuIDxGFE+n8gQMG9gQE4WmT5ayqSJys60Ik8185jX2MoGX2WyQ7aTi4ELV5ETWVwz3TECcaSCG7z4cxAAqnK6buw3KgSKHxcorVy.KonNTEdphRPV0QEkhZESG0JlIpULaTqXtnVw7QshqeyUDe2q1tosQc2YcywU5n8bGwH1dsFwXZt+OHGS6jII’ve run into a couple of questions / obstacles with the Routing Matrix approach:
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At first I thought I could access it through
Synth.getEffect(), but that didn’t work. After searching the forum, I found thatSynth.getRoutingMatrix()seems to be the correct method. Is that expected, or am I misunderstanding how Routing Matrix modules should be accessed? -
When I use
removeConnection()orremoveSendConnection(), the signal seems to get routed back to channels 0/1 automatically, and.clear()doesn’t seem to do anything. Is that expected behaviour?
In this example, I added two buttons just for the first kick mic:
- one connects / disconnects that mic to the main bus
- the other connects / disconnects it to its own aux bus
I’m not fully sure this is actually the best feature design. It might make more sense to have a single "THRU" button for the whole kit that mutes / unmutes the main output using send fxs, instead of handling everything with Routing Matrix instances. But I’m also using this project as a learning exercise, so I’m experimenting a bit to understand the options better.
Overall, does this structure and routing approach make sense?
PS:
- The code is still pretty rough, I’m just testing ideas quickly for now.
- In this example, the rack tom is not routed properly.
- I still haven’t compiled HISE for multi-output or exported a VST3 to test in the DAW, so before going further I’d like to understand what the best routing approach would be.
Thanks again!
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