Multimic or Siblings how to
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How do you guys creates multimic wavs? What app should I use? How to set them up to perfectly match Hises.
Recently recorded a brushed drum kit with 10 mics. I want to be able to mix within Hise i.e. room and direct mics for snare, etc
Got a session with 10 mono channels
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I use Reaper for editing but you can use any editor. In Reaper you can group multiple media items to keep them locked together or you can use a multi-channel audio file.
This is how you handle multi-mic samples in HISE - https://forum.hise.audio/topic/75/multimic-samples
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@hisefilo I personally use Pro Tools. The tab to transient, group edit, strip silence, batch fade, and batch rename are very powerful.
Just take care of the phase between your mics. When mixing drums (I've not yet created drum samples), I use Auto-Align from Soundradix. But a simple "click" sound and a visual alignment also works of course -
@d-healey @ustk Thanks guys!
Still not getting this:"A multimic sample consists of multiple audio files (from now on called siblings) that are merged into one virtual sample and treated as a single audio file."
Means an unique wav file with 10 channels or 10 wavs??? Sorry totally newbie on multimic
@ustk Ive just inverted phases for bottom mics but still investigating
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Sorry totally newbie on multimic
Start with 2 samples then :)
Make sure the mic position name is included in the sample file name. For example
close_violin_60.wavwould be a violin sample of MIDI note 60 recorded with a close mic.So let's say you have 2 samples of the same note, recorded at the same time with two different mics -
close_violin_60.wavandhall_violin_60.wav.Add a sampler to your project and drag the samples to the mapping window and auto map them. You can ignore the microphone name in the auto-mapping window.
Both samples will be mapped to MIDI note 60. So if you play that note you will hear both samples at once.
Now select both samples in the mapping editor, right click and choose Tools > merge into multi-mic samples. Follow the instructions in the popup window and the samples will be merged.
The merging process creates a psuedo sample called a multi-mic sample. It's basically taking your individual mic position samples and grouping them together and giving you access to them individually through the routing controls and scripting commands.
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@d-healey Wow thanks David. So didactic and clear. Will follow these step by step.
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@hisefilo I also suggest to check the phase cancellation problem of the sample combinations.
For example, "Kick (close mic) + Room mic" can introduce phase cancellation issue that originate from mic positions / distances. So your kick sound will be very very decent because room and close mic signals cancelled some frequencies of each other.
You can solve this issue with 2 ways
- Adding very gentle delays to dedicated samples. I don't recommend that because it will cause delay in your plugin.
- Or you can apply phase correction and reprocess the samples before building the instrument. You can use Adobe Audition, it has a great bulk sample processor. I think Reaper should have this feature too.
For Phase correction processing; I can suggest "Waves InPhase" (that is paid one), or this free plugin "https://www.forward-audio.de/sampledelay/" ;)
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@orange awesome!!!! Working on it. thanks for the advice :)
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@d-healey I guess eleven mics is to much?
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@hisefilo Why would it be too much? It always makes drummers proud to be hidden behind a wall of mic...
11 mics? please confess
More seriously, that's a good start, if you recorded 11 mics, I'm sure they all have their utility
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@ustk LOL !!!
Don't know just experimenting. I want the user to be able to mix, let's say Snare with close mics LR + toms sympathetic resonance + Overhead LRs + Bass drum sympathetic choosing % of each mic to final output. Does this makes any sense for you? (looking for you opinion:)
This is my multimic session right now (driving me crazy)
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@hisefilo Sure it makes sense! Not only that you can select what bleed you want to keep, but also the fact you can set the amount of bleed per mic! That's a really good idea man
(I wonder how you will achieve this...)Know for bleed, there are 2 schools.
- Those who let the mic without phase alignment
- Those who are aligning very precisely.
I don't want to say one is better than the other, but my personal preference is a modern sound with accurate alignment so the second one. The advantage is double, you can position your mics to have a good sound on each source, so once aligned, everything is even more powerful.
The first generally gives a more old school sound and can be interesting. When you raise the bleed, phase misalignment brings more colour to the sound. But this technique needs a bit more experience, otherwise, the colour turns into a very weak/tiny sound...When I record a drumkit, I like 2 SN, 2 BD, 3-4 Toms, 2 OH L-R, 1 OH SN, 1 Ride, 1 HH, 2-3 Rooms, and if possible 1 Drumkit centre... Yep... That's a lot... I know some people don't like that, but that's me...
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@ustk Thanks man! Totally newbie on this.
Trying to align phase with https://www.forward-audio.de/sampledelay/ but no luck yet!These are my 9 mics on BD. I guess some of them are useless, but multimic samples should include all of the mics for all of the notes, so I the I should keep the silent also
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@hisefilo Since it is not a live drumkit but samples, you can choose the bleed you want to propose, like only the OH and the Room, it would be easier to manage. So for each mic you have:
- Proximity Mic
- OH bleed
- Room bleed
and for Room and OH, you only have Room and OH... It's just an example...
I don't know sample delay, I am using Auto ALign from Sound Radix. Is it automatic detection?
For aligning the mic, I ALWAYS use a full take with all drums playing so the detection works better.
It never works either for me on single hits. The plugin needs a "complete overview" of the instrument for several tens of seconds...Your BD seems good, except maybe the inside mic which is a bit "ringgy", but as I don't know the style you aim at...
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@ustk said in Multimic or Siblings how to:
Auto ALign from Sound Radix
Awesome!!! seems what Im looking for! thanks a ton!
I have the full takes, just cropped BD -
What I mean is not isolated playing but a real drum fill
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@ustk Sorry but need to ask this! (I think need to take some classes with you) Phase align and delay (due mics distances) are not the same issue? I mean if I can calculate and delay a mic some ms. they will be all in phase, right? Despite the bottom ones that will be -180?
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Yes and no... Because phase is frequency-dependent, the delay will not be the same for two different frequencies...
180° out of phase doesn't require the same delay at 2 different frequencies...
But yes, in a way that if you re-align two distant mics with the delay corresponding to their relative distance, all the frequencies should be in phase.
But since the audio material in each mic is not the same, nothing is perfect in this world...
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@ustk I like the yes and no! Quantum answer!!!
I guess will need to bend time and space before recording :)Jokes apart, very clear! Now I get it! Thanks a ton!
