Stock Table Upgrade?

[DanH]

It seems we may have outgrown the stock Hise table and, like the recent Flex Envelope upgrade, I think we need a table upgrade.

There's not loads of issues imo, mainly the way to implement the curves.

Right clicking isn't intuitive and is clunky.

having a curve node like we do in the flex envelope would provide some consistency across the platform.

If we can't, then the line in-between two table points should respond to mouse hover graphically and we can use left click to shape the curve.

In both cases adding points could be done with a double left click. Double clicking a table point would delete as well.

My preference would be the node. See below for examples

Another issue is only being able to move points by a pixel at a time. This came up a few weeks ago and is apparently a Juce issue but it's a very poor resolution by modern standards so would love to investigate further.

Can anyone other than @Christoph-Hart help with this as I get the feeling he is very stacked at the moment (some of which is helping me on my new project ). I'm happy to contribute some $$ to a solution.

[griffinboy]

@DanH

I have one

If we could get Christoph to adopt one though, that of course, would be better.

[DanH]

@griffinboy you've kept that quiet

[griffinboy]

@DanH

it's not quite integrated with hise fully.

If we could get Christoph to adopt one though, that of course, would be better.

[DanH]

@griffinboy yeah that's why I think the stock table needs the upgrade to avoid compatibility issues. The table is so crucial to so many bits of hise

[HISEnberg]

@griffinboy Is it your own custom floating tile or is this something you achieved in HISEscript?

[griffinboy]

@HISEnberg

It's hisescript.
Currently only integrated for custom c++ projects with my custom modulation source.

[ustk]

@griffinboy @DanH in fact I’m doing exactly the same, custom panel tied up to C++ nodes.

[dannytaurus]

I expect we all want slightly different sets of interactions with tables. I wonder if we can expose them as project settings, so we can all have what we want in our own plugins?

I think (so far ) my preference would be:

Table points: left-click to add, left drag to move, double left-click to remove
Lines: left drag to bend (only within the current line boundaries), double- left-click to reset

The current method of left-click-and-drag to both add a point and position it in one motion is nice, but I'd happily give that up for a two-step click-to-add then drag-to-move system if it means not dealing with right clicks.

Although I do quite like the idea of double left-click to both add and remove points, as @DanH mentions above.

I would also want (as noted above) dragging curves to be restricted to the current line segment only. Currently if I drag a curve up/down then move my cursor left-right if starting bending neighbour curves. Feels very weird.

[Oli Ullmann]

@DanH
@griffinboy
@HISEnberg
@ustk
Please do not change the mouse behavior of the current table (left click, right click, double click, etc.). That would not only break my project but certainly many others as well.

It would be better to create a new one, a Flex Table, like @Christoph-Hart did with the Flex Envelope. :-)

[DanH]

@Oli-Ullmann yes backwards compatibility is the main issue here. The table is everywhere in Hise. Perhaps the existing table can have a switch to choose between types of table, 0 for the stock Hise table, 1 for the new 'flex' table or whatever...

[griffinboy]

@Oli-Ullmann

Indeed, that's my thinking. It would be nice for table 2.0!

Although, I'm likely to do it custom no matter what, as is my preference for high control!

[ustk]

@dannytaurus said in Stock Table Upgrade?:

I expect we all want slightly different sets of interactions with tables

Yes that's why I went for panel, if you need more behaviour like smoothing or different cubic/quadratic splines.

[HISEnberg]

@ustk Are you controlling the table with a panel in your case? I didn't know that was possible. If you are then it sounds like the simplest solution for a Table 2.0 just exists in HISEscript + a bit of math.

This article peaked my interest however!

https://signalsmith-audio.co.uk/writing/2021/monotonic-smooth-interpolation/

[ustk]

@HISEnberg You could, but there's no point interfacing a table when your panel addresses everything already. I just send the data to C++ node.
That being said, the panel is quite a beast...

[griffinboy]

@ustk

Idk if you have used a different strategy, but the way I'm doing it, is sending only the control points and tensions into c++
Since the GUI code only contructs the graph at the resolution it needs to for each segment, there is no point calculating a high resolution graph on the hise side of things.

The c++ then constructs the actual modulation shape in high resolution to be used for audio processing.

[ustk]

@HISEnberg Yep this article is nice. In the end it all depends on the interaction you want with the curve, because there would be as many spline constructions as desired interactions... I needed mine with curve passing through the points, and no possible overshoot on the y axis (when 2 points have same x, it's forbidden for the curve to pass those points (like in standard table) which isn't possible with standard cubic unless all control points are permanently resizing to follow their neighbours

[ustk]

@griffinboy Yeah same here
I just send the nodes and tension information (called smoothing here) to C++ and build the curve in there...
We should have worked together on this lol

[griffinboy]

@ustk

haha indeed, we have the same system.

[HISEnberg]

@griffinboy @ustk Thanks for sharing! I think I am going to build my own system now and we can see who has the smoothest curves